Talk:Airbus A380: Difference between revisions
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:Please don't patronize me by pretending my comments are somehow inappropriate because you think I'm not calm. I done arguing with you. Next time you remove sourced material, I'll report you to AIN, and let them sort it out. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] ([[User talk:BillCJ|talk]]) 06:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
:Please don't patronize me by pretending my comments are somehow inappropriate because you think I'm not calm. I done arguing with you. Next time you remove sourced material, I'll report you to AIN, and let them sort it out. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] ([[User talk:BillCJ|talk]]) 06:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::You used too many exclamation marks for a calm person. Just because something has a source, it doesn't mean that it is useful or encyclopaedic. The speculation of 2005 was probably valid for the article of 2005, before the aircraft had flown or been tested or entered service. But time has moved on, we know the answers to many of the questions posed by the A380, and the article has likewise moved on. --[[User:Skyring|Pete]] ([[User talk:Skyring|talk]]) 06:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
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A-380 backwash
There's a part in the article claiming that the A-380 jetwash needs to be investigated for possible negative consequences, as the aircraft is heavier than the B-747. The engines on the A380 are of similar (or perhaps less?) thrust than those used on some models of B-777 aircraft (a plane that is some 12 years old), so this issue surely has been addressed in the past already and can be removed from the article?
87.210.35.24 (talk) 16:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
- Are you talking about Wake turbulence? THat has two sources, and discusses legitimate studies that were carried out and completed. It's history - it happened - there's no reason to remove that. If you're talking about something else, I couldn't find it. Btw, Boeing (not "B") 777 - 2 engines; A380 - 4 engines. I somehow doubt the "jetwash" is exactly the same form both planes. - BillCJ (talk) 17:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, to be more specific, I'm talking about this passage of text (with no citations) regarding ground vehicles:
- "As of late 2005, there were concerns that the jet blast from the A380's engines could be dangerous to ground vehicles and airport terminal buildings, as more thrust is required to move its greater mass (560 t compared with 413 t for a 747). The FAA has established a commission to determine if new safety regulations seem necessary, and was to make appropriate recommendations to the ICAO. According to Wall Street Journal, "The debate is supposed to be entirely about safety, but industry officials and even some participants acknowledge that, at the very least, an overlay of diplomatic and trade tensions complicates matters." The FAA commission has stated it would not enact unilateral safeguards for the A380, only those imposed by the ICAO."
- Many of these ground vehicles/terminal buildings have been exposed to the blast of the slightly more powerful 777 engines already.87.210.35.24 (talk) 18:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
- The A380 has been in service for some time and there have been no reports of jet blast incidents. Our article doesn't need to cite thinly based concerns from years ago as a current or future problem. If some galoot gets blown across the runway by the 380's mighty pods and gets run over by a passing jumbo, then maybe we can bring it back. --Pete (talk) 21:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
- The concerns were cited. cite info proving they they were unfounded. YOu can't just remove everything that disagrees with your "prefect" image of the A380. - BillCJ (talk) 23:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
- Well, of course not. But concerns are one thing. People are concerned, on waking up in the morning, that it might rain and spoil the picnic they have planned. And rightly so. Picnics are often rained out. But when the rain does not occur, just how much does our encyclopaedia need to include past worry and speculation of disasters that never happened? People come here seeking information, after all, and if we can find reports of baggagehandlers bowled over like ninepins, and service vehicles sent skittering sideways across the tarmac, then we should include them. But let us stick to facts, please! --Pete (talk) 00:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I notice some people want to keep this rubbish. This is 2005 speculation we're talking about here. Since then the A380 has flown in and out of airports all over the world and has been operating commercially for some months. Any reports of problems with the jetblast? Any reports of problems anywhere? If there are, then include them by all means. If there aren't, then maybe we can accept that the sky ain't falling in. Certainly our readers deserve facts, not speculation. As for cites, gimme fact cites, not Chicken Little. --Pete (talk) 01:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I'm asking you to revert yourself, or I will report you for revert warring, and request that you be blocked. The purpose of discussion is to come to a consensus, THEN to make changes. Removing cited material is disruptive, and not the way to handle disputes. Wikipedia is not about "facts", but about reporting what is printed in verifiable, reliable sources. In what dream world in the Wall Street Journal not a reliable source? It may be speculativen, but it is reported speculation, and there is a vast differences. Someone who genuinely wants "facts" would allow this to stand, and then CITE reliable sources showing the concerns were unfounded, not just use their own speculations to justify removing cited material. The A380 is a unique aircraft, and many had genuine concerns related to that. Stop trying to suppress every question and concern about the aircraft. - BillCJ (talk) 01:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- It may be speculative, but it is reported speculation, and there is a vast differences. Do tell? I don't care how much the Wall Street Journal wants (or rather wanted) to worry about Airbus and talk up potential disaster. Stick to the facts, not speculation from years ago. The A380 has demonstrated that jet blast is no more a problem than it is with any other aircraft. --Pete (talk) 01:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- The A380 has demonstrated that jet blast is no more a problem than it is with any other aircraft. - Another so-called "fact", but again, you don't back up anything you believe with reliable sources, but expect people to take your word for it because you love the A380 so much. Find a credible source, cite it, and prove what idiots the people who questioned the backwash were. Instead, you want to bury any critcism as if it never existed. That's not the way to fully cover anything. - BillCJ (talk) 01:59, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I can't find any reports of actual problems with A380 jetblast in the years it has been flying, and I can't make them up just to satisfy you. Be reasonable. --Pete (talk) 02:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- You haven't got a clue if you actually think that's what I've been asking for! - BillCJ (talk) 02:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I never thought you were. The fact is that there are no reports of problems with A380 jetblast. But you want our article to include speculation from 2005. Speculation which has not proven accurate. Why? --Pete (talk) 02:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- "The A380 has demonstrated that jet blast is no more a problem than it is with any other aircraft. - Another so-called "fact", but again, you don't back up anything you believe with reliable sources, but expect people to take your word for it because you love the A380 so much."
- The fact is that some models of Boeing 777 aircraft that have been in use for years use engines that are more powerful (you can look it up) than the engines used on the A380. So it's really a moot point when one looks at the facts. Any airports that can deal with 777 jet blast can put up with A380 jet blast. And the 777 has been in service for years without jetblast problems. The A380 so far has had no jetblast problems either. So... I really don't understand what the passage about jet blast is needed for. I don't think speculation in a Wall Street Journal (not known aviation buffs, but we'll ignore that) article from before the plane had yet been certified or launched is merited in this article. I don't love Airbus or Boeing, just trying to get this sorted out. 87.210.35.24 (talk) 02:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Again: 777 - TWO engines; A380 - FOUR! - BillCJ (talk) 03:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- You know, I'm sure there are a lot of sourced items in the article about aspects of the A380 that later did not pan out or proved to be false. Let's pretend no criticism of the A380 ever existed if those criticisms proved to be unfounded. And this for a plane that has ONE aircraft in regular service for less than 3 months. But of course we know if it hasn't happened in that time, then it conclusively proves those problems never will happen! If we get rid of all those for the same reasons you're claiming here, the article will be a lot shorter. Since it's too long anyway, have at it! I await the results eagerly! - BillCJ (talk) 03:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Calm down, please. The A380 has been flying for two and a half years, multiple aircraft have visited airports all over the world, it's been in operational service for several months. If jetblast is a problem then someone, somewhere, would have made a fuss. It would have been front page news. And, if it somehow does become a problem, then we'll include it in our article. But speculation dating from before the aircraft flew that proves to have been, so far at least, baseless, well it doesn't really tell the reader seeking information about the actual aircraft anything much. Why don't you kick off a new article on criticism of the A380? There has been scads of that, some valid, some scaremongering, and the paper conflict is worthy of note. --Pete (talk) 05:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Please don't patronize me by pretending my comments are somehow inappropriate because you think I'm not calm. I done arguing with you. Next time you remove sourced material, I'll report you to AIN, and let them sort it out. - BillCJ (talk) 06:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- You used too many exclamation marks for a calm person. Just because something has a source, it doesn't mean that it is useful or encyclopaedic. The speculation of 2005 was probably valid for the article of 2005, before the aircraft had flown or been tested or entered service. But time has moved on, we know the answers to many of the questions posed by the A380, and the article has likewise moved on. --Pete (talk) 06:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)