Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Netherlands: Difference between revisions

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Anne Frank Tree photograph: other buildings there too
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Now that the tree isn't going to be cut down two days or whatever, is anyone willing to try the museum again? It's possible that the museum was reluctant to allow access because they didn't want to 'open the door' to everyone who wanted to see the tree before it was cut down. Perhaps also they were concerned someone from the Dutch Tree Foundation or some other organisation was going to try some stunt. Now that this has all calmed down a bit, you might have a better chance. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 14:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Now that the tree isn't going to be cut down two days or whatever, is anyone willing to try the museum again? It's possible that the museum was reluctant to allow access because they didn't want to 'open the door' to everyone who wanted to see the tree before it was cut down. Perhaps also they were concerned someone from the Dutch Tree Foundation or some other organisation was going to try some stunt. Now that this has all calmed down a bit, you might have a better chance. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 14:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

: There are other buildings on that block, and it looked like one of the photos mentioned [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_November_20#Image:02tree.600.jpg here] was taken from a diferent direction than the museum (although I don't know if one can walk freely inside the courtyard or if each building's area is fenced off). -- [[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] ([[User talk:SEWilco|talk]]) 18:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


== Core Contest ==
== Core Contest ==

Revision as of 18:35, 14 December 2007

WikiProject iconNetherlands Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Userbox

One comment, would you mind removing the word proud from the userbox, that smells a bit too much after nationalist sentiment, I will only put the box on my userpage without. Thanks Arnoutf 14:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are right about. I've removed "proud" for better Wikipedia community relations. Goldenrowley 17:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Replacing the old municipality templates

In the near future, I want to convert the infoboxes of the Dutch municipalities with the general {{Infobox city}}. This has a number of advantages: uniformity with cities/towns outside of the Netherlands, less maintenance, and we can profit from the well developed general template.

I am at this moment writing a bot that can do the conversion automatically, preserving all information currently in the infoboxes. For practice, I've already converted Eindhoven (compare with e.g. Amsterdam (municipality), which has the old infobox). At the same time, the bot will update the statistics in the box with the latest numbers from the CBS.

Does anyone have any helpful feedback before I start? Like the idea, or not? -- Eugène van der Pijll 19:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea! I have no experience with bots, but this sounds like a botjob. Arnoutf 21:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The bot is ready, and it has already converted two articles (Ommen and Bladel). I'll wait a few days before starting the mass conversion. Eugène van der Pijll 23:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heineken

The Heineken article is nominated at the Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive. If you want to contribute to the article, please vote now. – Ilse@ 13:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There appears to be no WikiProject Belgium, so I'm bringing this here. An anon is making huge changes to the Flemish people article, and I don't want to get into an edit war there since I have no input on the subject myself, but others might want to review the edits that the anon is making, if there is anyone here who has expertise and input on the subject. Corvus cornix 23:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Golfvaardigheidsbewijs

Could someone tell me what year Golfvaardigheidsbewijs started? Also, why is only one course to be used for the practical part of the test? I'm just looking for facts to fill out the article and I thought that this would be a good addition. Thanks, Dismas|(talk) 15:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question about what goes into this project

Does a biography about a historian whose major work was about the Netherlands (John Lothrop Motley) fall within the scope of this project? Paul Koning 17:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The project scope is fairly broad; you can use you own judgement. I would say Motley is a border case. Arnoutf 20:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive

Several WikiProjects have an Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive; see for instance Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Article improvement drive. Would it be an idea for us to do something similar? We may not have enough articles and/or participants for a weekly or bi-weekly drive, but how about a monthly drive? AecisBrievenbus 22:11, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea, part of my recent effort in assessment and getting the templates working has been to allow members to see where we stand, and where we can/should book progress. We could look at important articles and do something like: Move this stub to start (or higher); this start to B (or higher) this B to GA (or better) etc. and then a montly evaluation/checkup whether the article is there or needs extension / another requires priority Arnoutf 22:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we could do a kind of a move one up style? For example something like this (the articles are examples those can be determined by elections):
Improvement Stub to Start Start to B B to Good Article Good Article to A A to Featured Article Respond to FA review
Article Apenheul Erasmus University Utrecht (city) Dutch Revolt NA NA
Listed since 3 July 07 3 July 07 3 July 07 3 July 07 NA NA
To do Actions

Expand text
Add essential references
Add figure(s)
Structure article

Actions

Balance text
Complete essential references
General improvements

Actions

Good prose
Complete references
Copy edit
Undergo GA review

Actions

Finalise article
Peer review by others within project
Prose, style, grammar, structure high level
General improvements

Actions

Undergo FA review

Actions

Respond to critisism in FA review

Successfully
completed
none yet none yet none yet none yet none yet none yet

Arnoutf 17:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is indeed a great idea. I don't know whether I will do much with it, but in my opinion the idea behind such a concept is very good. Knurftendans 20:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Measuring and illustrating Collaboration

I don't know what do you think?, but in my boredom I created this template, for the Scottish WikiProject, to measure our members activity, this can be transcluded in the user pages, both as reminder and a motivator of this WikiProject. You can choose any given period of time: By monthly, bimonthly or trimonthly basis, to count user contributions. Also it can be customized to facilitate the task of the WikiProject Editorial Team 1.0 for representing the quality status of articles at glance. Let me know your comments. Here it is how this works for now. (If you would like I can change the colors so they match the colors of your national flag).

{{ScottishWikiProjectActivity| UserTalk=2 | WikiProject=4 | Mainspace=1 | Activity=A }}

Example:

The UserTalk, WikiProject, Mainspace and Activity parameters are all optional. Use only the ones that are appropriate for the situation. Typically, the Top, Left, Bottom and Right sections will be filled in, as a minimum; to determine inactivity within a predetermined period of time. User Inactive is depicted like this A and Active with an A.

Color Meaning Values
Left UserTalk
0-30
Top WikiProject
0-30
Right Mainspace
0-30
Right Activity
A, A*

◙JMK◙ -22:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Netherlands

Let's get Portal:Netherlands up to Featured Portal status! How can it be improved, what can be added? Please drop your suggestions here. AecisBrievenbus 14:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should have a good look at other featured country portals (they appear to have gold layout rather than pale blue) and try to adopt their strongest points. Arnoutf 06:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Most country portals use a colour for the background that is related to the country. See for instance Portal:Basque. I have experimented with orange (using Show preview), but just about every shade of orange is like staring into a lightbulb. It hurts. How about using a cobalt blue background (the blue in the Dutch flag) with vermillion headers (the red in the Dutch flag)? Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 11:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Newsletter

I propose writing a monthly newsletter for this WikiProject, to keep each other informed on what has been done and what has been planned. This is common practice in many other WikiProjects. Any thoughts? AecisBrievenbus 18:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In principle ok, but let's not direct too many resources to this; the actual drive for improvement is not that strong yet, we only have 2 FA, and 2 GA articles in our project. Arnoutf 06:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Dutch football

I have proposed a daughter project of WikiProject Netherlands: WikiProject Dutch football, about (surprise) football in the Netherlands. The proposal, for those who are interested, can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Dutch football. AecisBrievenbus 22:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look at the page, and tend to agree that setting up a task force structure may be better suited (see e.g. the military history project which has a dutch mil hist task force) Arnoutf 07:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've created a football task force covering Dutch football for you..However you may wish to rename it, I've initially called it the Holland task force, rather than the Netherlands task force.... you can find it at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football/Netherlands task force. Paulbrock 11:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

William the Silent

William the Silent has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

Jan Sloot

Jan Sloot was brought to me attention as a possible hoax. Since the dead guy was a Dutch citizen, there might be more resources in Dutch to see if this is true or false. Ya'll are welcome to do whatever you want with the article, even deletion. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 09:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand the Wikipedia rules, hoax articles (articles that are fake) are frowned on. But articles about a hoax, if the subject is notable, are fine. I'm not sure if this one is notable enough; given that Roel Pieper fell for it and Philips almost spent money on it, perhaps yes. The Dutch article has a lot more substance to it, so if the article is retained it would be good to translate the Dutch article as a way to expand this one. Paul Koning 15:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The subject is real and notable, so the article is not a hoax. Whether the subject's claims are a hoax is another matter, but not pertinent to Wikipedia. AecisBrievenbus 17:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed a well documented story in the Netherlands. Arnoutf 19:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Franks FAR

Franks has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.--Peter Andersen 20:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion

I don't know if this is the right page to do this, but i've noticed some areas of the Dutch history that are neglected. For example; they are no articles of any accused Dutch "witches" during the wich-hunt in the 16th-17th century, and as far as iv'e seen, they are know examples of any historicall actors. I think it would be very interesting to read about this, and i think every country deserves to be represented. The Netherlands is very well represented in the area of painters, but i havent find anything about historicall actors. It would, for example, be interesting to read about Johanna Cornelia Ziezenis-Wattier, whom i understand is your most famous 18th century actress, but i've found nothing abour her on Google! This is just a suggestion, and i hope someone who knows will want to write about it someday. --85.226.235.174 12:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good place to list this. We should add a requested article section, where these specifically can be added. Good suggestions, highly appreciated. Arnoutf 13:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
@Arnoutf: We've got Wikipedia:WikiProject Netherlands/Article requests. AecisBrievenbus 13:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know but to be honest, that page is not well developed so far. On top of that we have an open tasks with article requests listed on top of this talk page. I think we should consider developing the requested article section to be more visible / user friendly, and only being there once before referring editors there. Arnoutf 16:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We could use Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Article requests and Wikipedia:WikiProject France/Article requests for inspiration. AecisBrievenbus 22:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
AFAIK, The Netherlands didn't really do much witch-hunting. Guido den Broeder 22:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

North Sea collaboration

North Sea is the current Article Creation and Improvement Drive collaboration. WikiProject Netherlands members may find that a relevant focus. Perhaps a regular member of this project could find a place for the collaboration banner on the project page itself? __meco 22:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Translation help

Resolved
 – Thanks, Jacoplane! howcheng {chat} 23:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Could a Dutch speaker please come over to Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images/2007 July 6#Image:BAEF First Boat 070430.jpg? I need a translation of an email granting usage permission of an image. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 17:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A-class review Golden Film

You can help peer review the article Golden Film. The goal of the review is reach A-class. – Ilse@ 14:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you User:Arnoutf and others for the help. The article is now assessed as A-class.
I would like to ask a native speaker of Dutch to record an audio file with the Dutch pronunciation of "Gouden Film" that can be linked in the Golden Film article. Your help is much appreciated! – Ilse@ 13:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of Dutch article and journal titles

Hi, I'm updating the article "The Singapore Stone", and would like to provide an English translation of an article, "Was Malaka emporium voor 1400 A.D. genaamd Malajoer? En waar lag Woerawari, Ma-Hasin, Langka, Batoesawar?" which was published in 1921 in the journal Bijdragen to di Taal-, Land-en Volkenkunde van Nederlandsch-Indie. I'd be grateful if someone could provide translations of both the article and journal titles. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Jacklee 17:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article: "Was the trading post of Malacca named Malajoer prior to 1400 A.D.? And where were Woerawari, Ma-Hasin, Langka, Batoesawar?". The journal title is "Contributions to the Linguistics, Geography, and Anthropology of the Dutch East Indies". It looks like you misspelled the journal title; I would expect "Bijdragen tot de ..." Paul Koning 18:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick response. The journal title was given in the source I referred to as Bijdragen to di..., so perhaps the author made a mistake. Or could this be an older spelling? Cheers, Jacklee 19:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That seems very likely; if it is a Dutch journal from 1921 "de" is almost certainly the word. Probably a journal typo, I have seen them often. Arnoutf 20:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That, and the fact that "to" and "di" are not Dutch words... while "tot de" turns the title into a sentence that makes sense. Paul Koning 23:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Paul is probably right that there has been a typographical error in the source that I've been looking at. But I'd like to be sure. Do either of you have access to an online library catalogue in the Netherlands? Perhaps if one of you does a search for this journal we can confirm how it is spelled. Cheers, Jacklee 18:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. How about this searchable version of the journal? A search for "Malajoer" on that website produces one hit: [1] which is an article from 1951 that references the one you mentioned (page 10 of the PDF, which is page 143 of the original magazine). The article is cited as "volume 77 of these Contributions, 1921". Note that the spelling of the article title is "Was Malakka..." (two k's, not one) which is indeed the Dutch standard spelling of that city's name. Unfortunately the on-line data on that site only goes back to 1950, so we can't retrieve the article you mentioned in that way. Paul Koning 19:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We may want to keep an eye open for it, whether an online version appears in the future. At the moment many scientific publishers are scanning past issues backwards. Arnoutf 19:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your comments and assistance. If you're interested, I recently completed overhauling the "Singapore Stone" article – have a look if you're free! Cheers, Jacklee 16:34, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article Improvement Initiative

Shouldn't the Article Improvement Initiative be updated? It seems like there are not many users voting or nominating. Maybe only one article should be selected. Or maybe the initiative should be removed from the project until there are more participants for it. – Ilse@ 20:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I partially agree, this wikiproject seems to lack the momentum at this stage for such an initiative. On the other hand I have seen some increased editing on the current nominees since they were put up (kept track of them as being the creator of the template I had free hand in choosing the first set ;-). I will update the templates right now, let's keep it in the air for now and see whether it grows. PS How do you people think about the failed/no immediate succes. I added that because it will allow editors who favour an old candidate article over a newer one to contribute; but it may take away a bit of the focus again. Let me know. Arnoutf 20:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image request

I was wondering if there is a really nice Dutch editor here willing to have a look at my recent photo request. I would really appreciate it.--Carabinieri 03:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea I have created a new subpage Wikipedia:WikiProject Netherlands/Image requests listed in the sidebar, wikilinked to your list.Arnoutf 10:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lucas Bols BV

Please take a look at this new article. I am not a Dutch speaker, so I could not 100% verify some of the information. It would also be nice to wikify the term "Besloten Vennootschap" as a legal corporate ownership form. Thanks. Consuelo D'Guiche 18:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article about B.V. in the Dutch Wikipedia says it has an English translation. That translation is actually the article for Limited liability company. From a quick reading that seems to be a pretty close analog. The key point seems to be that both are "limited liability" and do not have publicly traded or freely transferable stock. So until/unless someone wants to write an English translation of the Dutch B.V. article that actually directly describes the Dutch term, you might as well point to the article for LLC. Paul Koning 20:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also check this article Besloten Vennootschap. – Ilse@ 22:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Golden Film listed as FAC

I listed the article Golden Film as a featured article candidate. – Ilse@ 23:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After several users suggested that the article was too 'listy', I have split off the list as List of films that received the Golden Film, and I have requested a peer review for the new list article. Your help is most welcome. – Ilse@ 15:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The featured article nomination of Golden Film was restarted by the featured article director. You can reply (again) to the nomination on: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates#Golden Film. – Ilse@ 13:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article was not promoted due to a lack of comments/votes after the nomination was restarted. – Ilse@ 01:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Towers up for deletion

I would like to notify the members of this WikiProject of the deletion discussion on the Dutch singer Lee Towers. If you wish to join the discussion, you can do so at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lee Towers. AecisBrievenbus 00:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article ME/CVS Vereniging was deleted without discussion or alert. Regards, Guido den Broeder 15:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's back up. Guido den Broeder 11:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And deleted again, despite the addition of sources... Guido den Broeder 13:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a notable park in your country but the language barrier prevents me from editing the article directly.--Lenticel (talk) 12:47, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I started the article 2007 in the Netherlands‎ back in January. That's also when I stopped editing it, I'm afraid, so it is now horribly outdated. I wanna get it back on track, but I could use the help of the members of this WikiProject. AecisBrievenbus 17:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FLC List of films that received the Golden Film

The list List of films that received the Golden Film is nominated as a featured list candidate. – Ilse@ 10:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is promoted. – Ilse@ 01:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

translation

Hey everyone, can you please translate the following:

De vorming van Ararat is geologisch moeilijk te achterhalen, maar het type vulkanisme en de positie van de vulkaan doet vermoeden dat bij het sluiten van de Tethys-oceaan tijdens het Neogeen subductie-gerelateerd vulkanisme is opgetreden, zoals zich dat langs de plaatgrenzen van de Euraziatische en Afrikaanse en Arabische platen van Cabo de Gata tot aan de Kaukasus voordeed.

and

Het is niet bekend wanneer de laatste uitbarsting van Ararat plaatsvond, er zijn geen historische of recente waarnemingen van grootschalige activiteit vastgelegd. De laatste eruptie zal ergens in de laatste 10.000 jaar hebben plaatsgevonden. Het lijkt erop dat Ararat actief was in het derde millennium voor Christus; onder de pyroclastische stromen heeft men artefacten uit de vroege Bronstijd gevonden, evenals de overblijfselen van menselijke lichamen.
Wel is bekend dat Ararat in juli 1840 werd opgeschud door een grote aardbeving, waarvan de effecten het grootst waren in de omgeving van de Ahorakloof. Een onstabiel deel van de noordelijke helling stortte in en hierbij werden een kapel, een klooster en een dorp onder het puin bedolven. Volgens sommige bronnen is Ararat toen ook uitgebarsten, zij het onder de grondwaterspiegel.

Thanks a lot DenizTC 07:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you need a literal translation, or a general idea of the meaning? – Ilse@ 09:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we need exact literal translations, but somewhat better than rough translations of each sentence. Your call. I can kinda guess that the first part is about how Mount Ararat is formed, but need help for each sentence
My guess for second part: "It is not known exactly when the last eruption of Ararat took place ... (could not 'decipher' second sentence) The last eruption probably(?) took place in the last 10 thousand years. Pyroclastic evidence (?) ... suggest that Ararat was active in 3rd millenium BC
It is known that in July 1840 Mt Ararat ... which affected the surroundings of the Ahora Gorge the most...
thanks for the help DenizTC 10:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The first part ("De vorming...voordeed") translates as follows: "The formation of Ararat is hard to retrieve geologically, but the type of vulcanism and the position of the vulcano raise the idea that subduction relation vulcanism occurred when the Tethys Ocean closed during the Neogene, as recently occurred along the borders of the Eurasian, African and Arabian plates from Cabo de Gata to the Caucasus." AecisBrievenbus 12:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(after edit conflict): "The creation of Ararat is difficult to ascertain geologically, but the type of vulcanism and the position of the vulcan suggests that subduction-related vulcanism occurred at the closing of the Tethys ocean during the Neogene, such as occurred along the tectonic boundaries of the Eurasian and African and Arabic plates from Cabo de Gata to the Caucasus.

"It is not known when the last eruption of Ararat occurred, there are no historic or recent observations of large-scale activity recorded. The last eruption will have occurred somewhere in the last 10000 years. It seems that Ararat was active in the 3rd millenium BC; under the pyroclastic flows artefacts from the early Bronze Age have been found, and remains of human bodies.

"However, it is known that Ararat was shaken by a large earthquake in July 1840, the effects of which were largest in the neighbourhood of the Ahora Gorge. An unstable part of the northern slope collapsed and a chapel, a monastery and a village were covered by rubble. According to some sources, Ararat erupted then as well, albeit under the ground water level." Eugène van der Pijll 12:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot everyone DenizTC 12:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch casualties in Afghanistan

Wikipedia has articles on British Forces casualties in Afghanistan since 2001, Canadian Forces casualties in Afghanistan, German Armed Forces casualties in Afghanistan, Coalition casualties in Afghanistan and Civilian casualties of the War in Afghanistan (2001–present). How about creating an article Dutch Armed Forces casualties in Afghanistan? AecisBrievenbus 13:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly seems an important article for us, especially seeing how the increasing casualties are influencing public opinion about the mission. Jeffpw 13:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ME/CVS Vereniging

ME/CVS Vereniging (ME/CFS Association) is one of the three patient organizations for Chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis and post-viral fatigue syndrome in the Netherlands. The deleted article now is at deletion review. The references are in a foreign language and an issue at DRV is whether there was enough reference material independent of ME/CVS Vereniging's control or anyone associated with ME/CVS Vereniging to create a Wikipedia article. Please consider participating in that DRV to assist in determining whether the references are independent from ME/CVS Vereniging or in some way connected to ME/CVS Vereniging. -- Jreferee t/c 16:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The deletion was endorsed despite absence of concensus and an abundance of references. Guido den Broeder 22:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Frank FAR

Anne Frank has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --RelHistBuff 16:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Frank Tree photograph

At the present time, Wikipedia has no image related to the Anne Frank Tree which is to be cut down on November 21 2007. Wikipedians in the area are encouraged to take a free picture before it is cut down. Thank you. Puchiko (Talk-email) 13:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go there tomorrow and photograph it. Jeffpw 13:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The tree's location is not clearly defined in the article, but I think it is in the courtyard behind the building. If you put the picture(s) in Commons, I also point out you could write a Wikinews story which uses the picture(s). Will anyone be able to photograph the actual removal? One of the articles linked from the Wikipedia article says a new tree grown from a shoot of the old tree will replace the tree, so basically a clone will replace the tree. (-- SEWilco (talk) 17:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
At the time of the original plans to cut down the tree, there was a discussion on the village pump of the Dutch wikipedia. It seems that the tree is at the back of the house, and can be seen from a few windows of neighbouring houses. nl:User:Luijt said he was going to take a picture; you may want to try to contact him to see if he did. The discussion can be read at nl:Wikipedia:De kroeg/Archief 20061122. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 19:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it's a stupid question but why is the tree to be cut down? -- Ekki01 (talk) 19:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
News sources:
Summary: The tree is diseased and rotten. The city council fears it might fall down on someone. Puchiko (Talk-email) 20:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The tree's situation is described at Anne Frank Tree. (-- SEWilco (talk) 21:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I left him a message, but the discussion was from last year and he is not terribly active. I doubt if I will hear from him before the weekend, so I'll just go ahead and take the picture. It can't hurt to have an extra, in any event. -- Jeffpw (talk) 21:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The tree is behind the buildings on that block. Although not much of the tree was visible from Anne's hiding place, there is one hint that there are other windows which face the courtyard but not whether the windows are accessible to the public (nor whether it might be in the House or Museum). I haven't found mention of whether the courtyard is accessible to the public. Of course one could try asking the Museum staff. (SEWilco (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
And the Museum will be closed on the 21st.[2] Not surprising, with tons of wood and crane to move around. (SEWilco (talk) 05:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I have spoken to the Anne Frank Huis direction, and the media representative will br calling me back this morning. I went there yesterday and tried to take a photo from the huis itself, but it is not seeable from the tour. I'll let you know if my request today is met with success. Jeffpw (talk) 09:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Anne Frank Stichting has refused our request to take a picture. They say that AP and Reuters have been given access, and that is enough to document the tree. I explained about GFDL, but they were unmoved. I have made one last request, and the receptionist has said she will ask one more time, but I don't think it will be possible. I am sorry. Jeffpw (talk) 11:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to pull some strings from a different direction, but don't expect too much. User:Krator (t c) 12:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ladies and gentleman....we have a picture! Jeffpw (talk) 14:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can you move it to Commons? Ekki01 (talk) 17:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is Fair use. A professional photographer gave his permission for this one article. Jeffpw (talk) 17:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do we need to add "© Herman Wouters" to the caption? AecisBrievenbus 20:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedians in the area might examine the other buildings on the block and see if they can get permission from another resident on the block to get a freely licensed photo. The tree is scheduled to be removed Wednesday, and the Museum will be closed due to moving tons of wood around. I suppose it will be easy to photograph logs on a truck on the street, but it would be nice to get the tree while it's still standing. At least the restricted photo does look nice with the leaves on it. (SEWilco (talk) 17:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I suppose there's another option: Anyone know a pilot in the Netherlands who wants to go shoot some pictures? Keep an eye out for helicopters, there might be some there for a few minutes to get video for the TV news. For that matter, maybe a TV station would be willing to donate a frame from a video under GFDL (try contacting a public relations person at the TV station). Is a local TV station doing news in HD format? A single photo isn't much competition to them and they'd at least get credit for their donation in the image description page. (SEWilco (talk) 18:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
The Amsterdam article mentions there are radio and TV stations in the area but there are no details. Oh, there they are; I had to look at the country article to find the Culture article and there find mention of Media in the Netherlands. (SEWilco (talk) 18:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I found an existing 2003 photo taken from the Westerkerk church tower just to the south. (SEWilco (talk) 18:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I've just heard on the news that a judge decided that the tree won't be chopped down (at least not immediately). So there's some time for locally living Wikipedians to take a current photograph. Unfortunately, I live too far away in the South of NL otherwise I'd have a go. Ekki01 (talk) 18:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The judge has annulled the chopping permit. This means that the tree won't be chopped down any time soon. AecisBrievenbus 20:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Still it might be wise to make the photo as soon as possible, just to have an image on file. Arnoutf (talk) 22:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that there are very limited areas to take a photo. Most photos are taken by gaining access from the museum or adjoining apartments. The museum has flat out refused permission to private persons, and will only let AP and Reuters photograph. By the way, The photo I got permission to use in the article has been nominated for deletion. Jeffpw (talk) 22:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Jeffpw. Though I never imagined getting a picture would be so hard, I was happy to see how hard everyone worked to get a one. Even if the current photograph is fair use, it is still better than nothing, and as I have deduced form the above discussion, it was very hard to get. The deletion discussion looks very much in favour of keeping the image. Again, thanks for getting a picture. Puchiko (Talk-email) 15:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You guys would make shitty secret agents. Pick a day when the museum is closed, hop the wall, and take the picture. Kaldari (talk) 17:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've created a bounty for the photo on the Reward Board. Anyone want to add to the bounty? Let's make this worth someone's effort. Kaldari (talk) 17:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Gee, Kaldari. I'm not sure encouraging illegal act is really the best way to go towards building an encyclopedia. Your suggestion isn't feasible, in any event. If you look at pictures of the Anne Frank Museum, you will quickly see that the architecture precludes your James Bond fantasies. But thanks for putting your thinking cap on, however ill-fitting it may be. Jeffpw (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
James Bond could use a jet pack, which is a suitable (although not stealthy) tool. If a fence was the only obstacle then we just need a camera on a pole. But if you click on the coordinates and look at picture of the block you see there are buildings blocking the view. The building to the south is a church, but the tower there can only see the top of the tree. (SEWilco (talk) 17:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Speaking of aerial pictures, here is the tree on Google Maps. Isn't there a public domain NASA image available or something? JACOPLANE • 2007-11-21 17:49
No, normal NASA satellite images would not have enough detail. That's why at the bottom of that Google Maps image you see copyright notices for the companies which provided higher resolution images (from airplanes). Those notices change for different parts of the world. (SEWilco (talk) 05:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Okay. I did a Flickr search. I found a photograph of a tree. The photographer says he thinks it's "the chesnut [sic] tree that Anne Frank wrote about". I tried to compare it with the Fair Use picture, but I suck at stuff like that (and my glasses are broken). So, if anyone can compare the two pictures, please do. If someone can confirm that this is the right tree, I'll write to the guy begging him to re-license it under something like CC (it's currently an all rights reserved, which is useless, but I think a Flickr user is more likely to be willing to relicense his work than a professional photographer). Puchiko (Talk-email) 19:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's the wrong tree. Tree: too small. Environment: obviously on a canal, Anne's tree is not. User:Krator (t c) 19:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll keep on searching. Puchiko (Talk-email) 19:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm virtually certain that is not the tree in question. Check out the photo set. If you look at the buildings in the tree picture, the one is of the house next to the museum, taken from the front. This can be verified by looking at the photo to the right of the tree pic, where the museum and the building next to it are pictured. The tree is actually in the back. If I am correct, this would be an elm and not a chestnut tree. you might want to A) verify that the guy (presumably a tourist) got access to the back of the museum; and B) ask someone at the reference desk or a wiki tree project if this is a chestnut or elm. Jeffpw (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The leaves and bark don't look right when compared to horse chestnut. (SEWilco (talk) 20:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I contacted the user, and she (yes, she's female. My mistake for not checking the profile, and referring to her as "the guy") replied that "That tree was in fact outside the Anne Frank house, but on the street side of the building. I wasn't sure what kind of tree it was when I took it, so I assumed it might be the chestnut tree. It seems that it probably isn't, however, as it was the tree directly in front of the museum. I'm sorry to disappoint! Good luck finding a picture! Thanks for the message."' So her photograph is not what we're looking for, but I was pleased to find how friendly and kind she was. Puchiko (Talk-email) 15:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
: A judge temporarily blocked the tree removal. And a photo reward has been increased at Wikipedia:Reward board#Free-license photo of Anne Frank Tree. (SEWilco (talk) 05:39, 23 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Now that the tree isn't going to be cut down two days or whatever, is anyone willing to try the museum again? It's possible that the museum was reluctant to allow access because they didn't want to 'open the door' to everyone who wanted to see the tree before it was cut down. Perhaps also they were concerned someone from the Dutch Tree Foundation or some other organisation was going to try some stunt. Now that this has all calmed down a bit, you might have a better chance. Nil Einne (talk) 14:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are other buildings on that block, and it looked like one of the photos mentioned here was taken from a diferent direction than the museum (although I don't know if one can walk freely inside the courtyard or if each building's area is fenced off). -- SEWilco (talk) 18:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Core Contest

Our core article, Netherlands, has been nominated for our Article Improvement Initiative. Let Wikipedia:The Core Contest be another incentive to improve the article :) AecisBrievenbus 15:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Dutch politics proposed

I have proposed the creation of a new WikiProject related to WikiProject Netherlands: the WikiProject Dutch politics. If you are interested in joining such a WikiProject, you can express your interest at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Dutch Politics. AecisBrievenbus 20:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What about the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba?

Articles related to Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, Saba, Sint Maarten and Sint Eustatius appear to be covered only by Wikipedia:WikiProject Caribbean. Should the scope of this WikiProject be expanded to include the whole of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, to work alongside WikiProject Caribbean on such articles? AecisBrievenbus 23:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My guess would be yes, as they are part of the Kingdom. But I also see that the Category:Aruba is already a subcat of Category:Netherlands, so I'm guessing what happened is that those articles were already within the scope of this project, but just hadn't been tagged by it yet. John Carter (talk) 00:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed Category:Netherlands from Category:Aruba, and replaced it with Category:Kingdom of the Netherlands, since Aruba is not a part of the Netherlands, but of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. AecisBrievenbus 00:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Golden Film on the way to FA

Recently the Dutch film award article Golden Film was not promoted to featured article, due to a lack of votes and comments after the featured article director restarted the nomination. With your help with the current peer review, I believe the article about this Dutch film award can soon be promoted to featured article. Thanks! – Ilse@ 12:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is this my country?

I've been reading through a number of articles about the Netherlands and the Dutch, and I'm starting to get the feeling that it's not my country they're describing. From Dutch customs and etiquette, for instance:

"Another rude sign is to raise a hand and stick up the middle finger. If this sign is accompanied by slapping the elbow of the raised arm with the palm of the other hand, it becomes one of the most insulting sexual gestures in Dutch culture."

I have never seen anyone make the last gesture (middle finger + slapping the elbow), not even at football matches.

"Nodding the head is a sign of agreement, but shaking the head from right to left is rarely a sign of disagreement."

It's actually quite a common sign of disagreement.

"Men are expected to wait until all women are seated before they themselves sit down."

Maybe I haven't visited the right occasions, but I have never come across this rule in everyday life.

"A second helping will be offered and it is polite to accept."

I thought it was één koekje bij de koffie?

"Current Dutch humor is subtle and somewhat black, rather than slapstick."

I think that's an unverifiable generalisation. There is black humour, yes, there's subtle humour, yes, but there's also terribly politically incorrect humour, from the Sam en Moos jokes of yore (collected by Max Pam) to Hans Teeuwen.

"They are the most experienced and successful traders in Europe."

Are they? Are we? What about the British, the Italians, the Germans, etcetera? AecisBrievenbus 00:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you can delete all things that you believe are untrue, since there is no backing up by references. – Ilse@ 23:38, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]