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Archive 01

Have tried some reformatting in effort to halt template's growing width. In order to preserve chronology, "principal co-belligerents" now shown by italics– but (1) am not sure that their positions are correct; and (2) not sure if Brazil/Czechoslovakia/Vietnam/Thailand qualify as "principal" co-belligerents (or "major" participants)...?  Will add "• Others" to end of each list (duplicating links to Axis and Allies provided by these subheadings, but folk might not notice/respond to these instances). Hope nothing unacceptable has crept in. Regards, David Kernow (talk) 15:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1. If Japan to be listed under 1937, then China also.
2. In light of the Czech resistance to Nazi occupation article, have removed Czechoslovakia from "Major participants"/"co-belligerents" list and included it in a "Resistance movements" section. This section probably needs some further (non-European) additions.

Regards, David Kernow (talk) 04:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One question - what makes Brazil a co-belligerents and not a participant? 96T 11:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. I earlier wrote: "Brazil patrolled parts of the Atlantic and sent a division (Brazilian Expeditionary Force (FEB)) to Italy where they liberated parts of the Po valley." It sems to me that Brazil was an active ally. Folks at 137 12:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for spotting; have amended accordingly. Regards, David (talk) 18:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can anybody point here how Winter War is related to WWII?--Dojarca 23:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you should read Winter War article more carefully? I guess that Winter War#Beginning of World War II is far enough for including Winter War as a part of WWII? Piotr Mikołajski 10:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

there's a problem with france since there was two france each one with its own flag and leader. looking at the current article its like vichy france never existed, but it did! vichy french fought the russians in the eastern front through the SS division charlemagne and LVF, they fought the thai then the japanese in french indochina, they fought the allies in africa and maghreb. this had to be mentioned like you have done with the smaller country that is finland! Paris By Night 01:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see that British Crown Colonies like India are not even mentioned in the template. Either the entry of UK should be changed to the British Empire, or it should carry a note saying "includes British Crown Colonies", or a separate entry should be made for India.

Whilst the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran is included in the timeline in 1941 the other elements to the Middle East Campaign are not (ref the "invisible" Vichy French mentioned above). Perhaps it would be appropriate if the Iran line was substituted with a link to the Middle East campaign with text to indicate all the elementse.g. Iraq, Lebanon, Syria & Iran that is [[Middle East Campaign|Iraq, Lebanon, Syria & Iran]].

Also I think the East African Campaign should be included. This was a very serious and tough campaign with the equivalent of five plus divisions of infantry on each side - as big as the early campaigns in North Africa. Stephen Kirrage ^{talk - contribs} 17:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Guadalcanal campaign actually happened more in 1942 (August-December) than it did 1943 (January-February) so I moved it to 42 which could stand the addition. In it's original place I linked the rest of the Solomon Islands campaign which for the most part took place in 1943. Anynobody 08:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The RSI was a member of the Axis as such from 1943 - 1945, with its own Government, Capital and Military units. The template is about the MEMBERS of the Axis and the RSI was a member of the Axis as such. The RSI emerged out of the Kingdom of Italy, which entered the war in 1940. The head of the RSI was the same as the head of the Fascist State within the Kingdom of Italy. But its entry can also be specified to 1943. Daufer

It has to be specified in 1943, in 1940 there was just Italy and the RSI didn't even exist yet. Frankly since the Free French aren't listed on the Allies side I don't see why the RSI should be listed on the Axis. Anynobody 22:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, than it will be specified to 1943. Mussolini never signed the armistice, and when he was liberated, he and several loyal generals reestablished the fascist regime, in the north of the Gustav line with the help of the Nazi regime. But the RSI had the Same heads, same racial laws, same currency, same ideology, same politics as the Fascist Kingdom of Italy before. As for your strange comparison. 1. The RSI was the RSI and Free France was Free France, whats the connection? 2. Unlike the Trieste province and South Tyrol which were annexed by Germany, and under German control, the RSI remained independent. And was, as a state, a member of the Axis from 43 - 45. The RSI had its own Government, Capital and Military Units. If this was the same case with Free France and the Allies, than Free France should be added to the members of the Allies from its entrance - the end of war.

Whether it was a puppet state or not, doesnt matter, because it was a state nonetheless. And it was a member of the Axis, as that state, the RSI. Its actually really simple. Daufer

Hi guys, I have archived old discussions here: Archive 01. It was surely high time... My regards, --Dna-Dennis ^{talk - contribs} 01:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While I admire the great work & effort that has been put into this template, I nevertheless have some concerns. I created this template once, and as the absent father, I weep a little for my child which seems to suffer from serious elephantiasis... :)

As I said before, the idea was not that this template should serve as an exhaustive or detailed list on various WW2 matters, but only as a jump-off point to WW2 main topics. I talked about this one year ago here : Compression needed!.

Therefore, I recommend that this template gets thoroughly scrutinized.

As a starter I'd say:

• Nuke all the individual resistance movements. Link only to Resistance during World War II.

• Nuke many of the events in the timeline. Keep only very, very important ones. For a starter, go for 3 or 4 for each year.

• 1940: nuke British Somaliland, Occupation of Baltic states, Bessarabia and Bukovina, Invasion of Indochina, Invasion of Greece.

• 1941: nuke Invasion of Yugoslavia, Middle East, Siege of Leningrad.

• 1942: nuke Operation Torch.

• 1943: nuke End in Africa, replace Invasion of Sicily, Invasion of Italy with Italian Campaign, label it as "Invasion of Italy".

• 1944: nuke Cassino and Anzio, Battle of Romania, Liberation of Paris, Operation Market Garden.

Don't worry about "things being left out" - things will always be left out, no matter how hard we try. After all, it's a starting point, and there are links to the different theaters at the top of the template, and to List of military engagements of World War II.

Yes, I'm harsh. But sometimes a father has to be. :) My regards, --Dna-Dennis ^{talk - contribs} 14:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the list needs to be trimmed. I'm not an expert here, but I believe the invasions of Yugoslavia and Greece and the Siege of Leningrad were more important that the Phoney War and Operation Weserübung, which it seems you're going to keep. If the list of resistance movements is removed, Czechoslovakia and perhaps Ethiopia should be placed in the main combatant list. 96T 17:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you regarding PhoneyWar/Leningrad, but my personal point was that I'd like to see 3-4 important events each year, without comparing their importance ouside the scope of a year. As for Weserübung/Greece: hmmm...not sure, Norwegian harbors, Swedish iron ore...tricky. Believe me, I hate to remove stuff. But my starters was just me being semi-bold...and it was a little quickie to get some discussions. Regards, --Dna-Dennis ^{talk - contribs} 17:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above suggestions are a good start. I have just added some more Asia/Pacific battles, as I found the list very Eurocentric. I think all of those added are significant, in particular Burma campaign (for duration and forces), Operation Cartwheel (Allied master plan for the South Pacific from 1943) and Battle of the Philippine Sea (the death of the Japanese aircraft carrier fleet) and a significant proportion of its air power. Grant | Talk 20:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few words. I'm the anonymous user who engaged an edit war with user Daufer on the presence of the RSI in the list of the Axis states. You can find our discussion here. I'm going to do a last revert, and never more. The main reasons because I cancelled RSI from the list is that its military relevance is negligible and is already included in "others". If you want, continue the discussion. Bye, 87.14.234.106 14:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- 10th June 1940 : Kingdom of Italy enters WWIII
- 9th July 1943 : Allied Landing in Sicily
- 25th July 1943 : General Badoglio and the King VE III overthrow Mussolini and Arrest him
- 17th August 1943 : Allies conquer all of Sicily
- 3rd September 1943 : Allies begin invasion of Italy, Axis retreat to Volturno Line
- 8th September 1943 : The Kingdom of Italy sign the Armistice (Joining the Allies and declaring war on Germany)
- 10th September 1943 : Germans take control of all Italy North of the Volturno Line; The King flees to the Allies
- 12th September 1943 : Germans liberate Mussolini
- 13th September 1943 : The Allies and the King create the Kingdom of the South with capital at Bari
- 23rd September 1943 : The Italian Social Republic (RSI) is proclaimed and ruled by Mussolini
- 23rd September 1943 : Badoglio (Kingdom of Italy) signs the formal documents of surrender with General Eisenhower aboard Nelson off Malta

The Kingdom of Italy was an Allied member for 2 days. The Kingdom of the South (a state put up by the allies in already allied territory) remained with the allies - end of war. Daufer —Preceding comment was added at 06:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide any source for this "Kingdom of the South"? Certainly the territory under the control of the allies was the southern part, but I can find no evidence that the Royal government did not claim to be the legitimate government of all Italy. In the meantime I am reverting what is, because of the template layout, a fairly messy edit. --Michael Johnson 08:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Literature about the Regno Del Sud (Kingdom of the South) is: Königreich des Südens : Italien 1943/44 / E. R. Rosen. Goltze, 1988-90 - Regno del Sud / S. Bertoldi - The Italian Anti-Fascist Resistance in Retrospect: Three Decades of Historiography / Charles F. Delzell - Mussolini's Last Republic Propaganda and Politics in the Italian Social Republic / Luisa Quartermaine.
I-Net source from A. Gasperi Foundation http://www.fondazionedegasperi.it/Inglese/page.asp?IDCategoria=782&IDSezione=4511&ID=91749 Daufer —Preceding comment was added at 08:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]