There are 2 subspecies of tigers in africa training, 2 of them are bengal tigers, and the other 3 are south china tigers. Pls see the facts before editing. Do not edit anything on the south china tigers yet before u read this page. http://www.savechinastigers.org/ This website is the homepage of the african rewilding project of south china tigers. All of the new pictures are found there. And are u a tiger expert? The pictures clearly show south china tigers, the stripe pattern of the south china tiger may be similiar to the indochinese tiger but if u look closely enough ,u can see the difference. So please stop editing the facts.

Sorry. I can not find anything about P. t. amoynesis in africa on this page and moreover I don´t think, that this page is a reliable source!!!! --Altaileopard 14:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK I found something, but even if there is an introduction project in africa, this should be mentioned only in one or two sentences and it is enough to show a single image of this tigers. That is not typical for the subspecies. And..... Do you have the permission, to load these images up in wikimedia?--Altaileopard 14:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for replying. Ya, i have the permission of the webpage. Anyways, south china tigers are very cricitally endangered, it is rare to see their pictures thus i uploaded so many pictures for people to look at.

Do you have a reference to the study that you site regarding the hyoid bone? "But new studies show, that the ability to roar is due to other morpholigical features, especially of thelarynx." Dddstone 18:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The refernece is walkers mammals of the world (in the article under Literature). I dont have the book here at the moment, so I am not shure about the page. Its somewhere under Genus Panthera.--Altaileopard 08:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was going to ask about the page too, but having the rest of the book info is sufficient for now.

Thank you for your contribution, and I appreciate you asking me to look over it. I tweaked a few punctuation/grammar things and one spelling, but most of mine was linking a few things and adding a cite template. The latter is *not* required but often desired, to know more exactly the parts of the article the references refer to. TransUtopian 12:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you TransUtopian, for looking over it. I think you are right, it would have been better to make a cite template in this case.--Altaileopard 15:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Atulsnischal, Good work with the Reintroduction of asiatic lion in Kuno-Palpur, but I think it is not necessary to have a separate article for that. As the same text is also contained in Asiatic Lion and Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary, I think that Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project should be deleted. Moreover I think the block "Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project" should be deleted either in Asiatic lion or in Kuno Wildlife sanctuary. I think it is not good to have the same contents twice ore more. What do you think about that? Gruß, --Altaileopard 14:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Leopard

I just made a basic tempelate of the information for the three pages hoping they will evolve into three seperate paragraphs in time with a basic introduction on two pages and the Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project can have the project in more detail as it is a very important and costly project that has got caught in state politics. Year by year new achievements can be added to the project page (with time in dacades to come and relevent news links etc).

Thanks

Atulsnischal

Hmm, I would prefer to have the main info in the article Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary and a short overwiev with a link to that page on Asiatic lion (or probably the other way round). There are so many introduction projects for several animals in the world. I dont think it is good to have an article for each of them in the wiki. And if the three articles evolve to three different, but equal pages about that theme, the user has to read all three to be shure that he will get the whole information. Otherwise you have to do all changes always in three articles. Actually you can add new achievements also in an article about Kuno sanctuary. In the german wiki we always try to avoid redundant contents. Anyway.... the asiatic lion is a great animal. Greetings --Altaileopard 17:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

copied from User talk:Flavio.brandani:

In this edit you added P. l. goojratensis and several invalid "subspecies" to the lion subspecies. What are your sources for that? Where was the range of this "subspecies"? The indian subspecies (in Gir as well as in captivity) is called P. l. persica and the link of goojratensis leads to this subspecies.

The status of the Marozi is doubtful and by far not clear. Even in the article it is claimed to be a hybrid. Moreover its already mentioned in an extra part under the subspecies. After "A. Turner: The big cats and their fossil relatives. Columbia University Press, 1997.ISBN 0-231-10229-1" P. toscana is not a lion subspecies. About P (l.) youngi I am not shure, but I will try to find good sources. You said my edit was vandalism, but you added wrong information which is not confirmed by sources. I would rather call this vandalism.--Altaileopard 10:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

1)P. leo goojratensis is a synonim of p. leo persica institueted by Smee

2)P. leo youngi is a real prehistorical subspecies of a lion... see it.wiki for more dettails

3)Marozi is an hybrid of a leopard to a lion

Excuse me if I told that yours edits were crudelty vandalics... but you do not theath me to blocked... I am an Italian user persecuitated on it.wiki for pest control...

I WORK FOR ADORNED EN.WIKI I'M NOT A VANDAL Flavio/Tigre Reietta 14:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me too, I was a bit irritated, but let´s talk about the facts.

• If goojratensis is a synonym for persica, the name should be mentioned in this way behind this valid subspecies or completely left away.

• I am not well informed Panthera (leo) youngi, but this article shows no sources for the information about this animal to me.

• The marozi is likely a hybrid and should not be mentioned under the lion subspecies exept the sentence which is already at the bottom of the block.

--Altaileopard 15:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from User talk:Flavio.brandani:

Hello, its me again. You called my revert cruel vandalism do you have a proper reference for this edit ?Otherwise I will revert it again.Greetings--Altaileopard 16:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My dear Leopard..I study the tiger for many years and I'm absolutly certainly that Lecoqui tiger is a synonyms of Caspian tiger... Search on google and do not rollback my legal edits...I'M VERY ANGRY WITH YOU....EN WIKI IS MY last possibility to exist... On it.wiki I were blocked for pest controll by the cruel user Ribbeck...I WAS INNOCENCE..YOU KNOW? I WAS INNOCENCE... Flavio/Tigre Reietta 20:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this is not a proper source.--Altaileopard 22:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was searching a bit and found a good source for the synonym P. t. lecoqi for P. t. virgata. [1].

But that should not be mentioned in the first sentence of the article. Almost every tiger subspecies has several invalid scientific names. If you want to have it in the article, I think you should write a short extra block and note also the other synonyms like serpentrionalis ect. --Altaileopard 22:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear leopard... forgive me if I bollate yours edit as vandalism... however lecoqui existed... I'm not a vandal but unhappines exiliated user...:-) kiss tvb Flavio/Wiki pest 17:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi dear Altai leopard if do you speak italian and english could you menthoring me? I have desperated. yours Flavio/Tigre Reietta 12:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, Did I get you right? you wants me to be your mentor? I don´t know how to do this, but I can try to answer, you if you have questions.--Altaileopard 17:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know my native language dear AltaiLeopard (P. pardus orientalis ;-) )? Now I tent to explain you in my atrocious english why should I research a menthor. Uther SRG (Stacey Robert Greenstein) is a patient (=moderate) user. But he will be block me for 6 month if I continued to put incorrect or partial incorrect edits. So I research a user who try to help me to become a good wikipedian. For dettails in better english you could contact Uther SRG. Yours Flavio/Wiki pest 12:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, It seems to be, that you are probably a strange guy, but i believe you, that you want to help wikipedia. In this edit you added two subspecies. But the problem is that you gave no sources from where this info is. If i search in google scholar, which shows usually good papers ect. i can find nothing about V. t. lankavensis: [2]. You have to add comprehensible, reliable sources to your edits. If your englisch is to bad, ask native speakers, (if no one wants you can ask also me). Thats in principle all you have to do.--Altaileopard 14:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thumb What makes you certain this is actually a Marbled Cat?--Pharos 20:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Every picture I ever saw of a clouded leopard, shows quite big black spots on the forelimbs.[3] [4] [5][6]

The animal on the image shows very small spots like a typical marbled cat.[7][8][9]. Moreover the whole body is to slender built for a clouded leopard. I am 99,999 % shure this image shows Pardofelis marmorata.--Altaileopard 20:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

I notice you removed all of the weight of the Bengal tiger, as well as inf regarding northern bengal tiger > siberian tiger, saying the data is unconfirmed. As far as I see, they are all confirmed and sourced . What do you mean by unconfirmed? and with the largest siberian 40 kg less than the largest northern bengal tiger, the comparison statement is so obvious, what do you think?

We should use only zoological, reliable, references in wikipedia. lists of hunting records for example, are no good sources. A skin of a tiger can be stretched easily for half a meter. And if you measure over the curves, you can pull the measuring tape into the skin to "elongate" a dead animal enormously. A hunter wants always a very big animal...

In: Vratislav Mazak: Der Tiger. (1983) ISBN 3 894327596 are used only good, confirmed data. Mazak writes that the longest siberian tiger measured 350 cm (J A N K O W S K I ) in total lenght "over the curves", what would be about 330-335 cm "between the pegs". (The wheigt was estimated to be arround 300 kg.) Even this tiger is not defintiely confirmed, but it is the largest tiger, for which autentic data exist. The maximum wheight for Indian tigers from credible sources is 570 lb (258,2kg). This animal was shot in the Terai Region. The heaviest siberian tiger, for which we have reliable sources weighed 306 kg and was from Bouglione Menagerie. The heaviest wild amur tiger, for which Mazak has confirmed, exact data, weighed 270 kg. Mazak writes: All weights, which say 340 kg or even 384 kg for the heaviest tigers are not conirmed!!!!! I will change the article in this way, cause the book is really a good reference. Walkers mammals of the world says the same.... I have also some quite good books, which say that tigers are heavier and even Mazak wrote in his early times, that hey can grow bigger, but all these data depend on unconfrimed narratives.--Altaileopard 14:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Altai,

100 - 130 kg was by no means the average weight for Bengal tigress, all the specimens > 140 kg, so I changed it. If you have any objection, please let me know here before reverting. Thanks! Btw, Siberian < Bengal, we should discuss this, it's really serious!

I will answer you this evening.--Altaileopard 09:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, at first I reverted your edit in siberian tiger. You can not write anything, what is contradictionary to the standard book about mammals (Walker´s) without giving really good references (Papers ect.) Now I will have a look at the bengal tiger.--Altaileopard 15:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After Makak:Der Tiger and Walker's Mammals of the World amur tigers are on average larger than bengal tigers. I do not completely exclude, that (northern) bengal tigers reach the dimensions of the siberian race, but we should follow really serious literature here. The book about big cats (Big Cats: Kingdom of Might), mentioned by you, is not enough to be a reference against these two highly scientifical books. That does not mean, that this book is not good.I think it´s okay and I will buy it in the near future.

But what can we do? Does this book (Big Cats: Kingdom of Might) really says, bengal tigers are on average larger than siberian tigers? If this is the case, we can write, that the bengal race is sometimes considered to be as big as or even larger than the siberian tiger.

Could you give me the exact text passage for this satement in this case?

Now let´s talk about the maximum weight. This was your edit:

The largest wild Bengal tiger, also the largest wild tiger ever recorded, was shot in Northern India in 1967, 3.35m in total length and weighed 388 kg, (857 lbs), while another, killed in Nepal in 1942, weighed 320 kg ^[1]. I am shure Mazak knows about them (He also mentioned the 384 kg siberian male), but he took only data, which are from really reliable sources. Whatever, are both maximum weights from Schallers book? If we keep them in the article, we should mention, that they are debatable and not accepted in other scientific literature. Can you please write down here the original text of Schallers book. Otherwise I have to buy this book, too.--Altaileopard 16:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, I dont think so. Mazak only knew what he had read, the fact that he made no mention of any of the specimens from Nepal, measured by Dr. Mel Sunquist in 1975- 1976, and later on, by Dave Smith and Chuck Mcdougal is proof. Without specimens, all the average weight mentioned by Mazak, is at best, speculation or based on some other books. And the average weight he gave the Bengal is WRONG. Let's face it: Female:100-130 kg, 2.4 - 2.65m. Oh dear, the smallest female, T106 captured by Mr. Sunquist is 141 kg, 2.6m. Lakshmi tigress, T107 2.82m, 148 kg, Number One, T101 tigress, 164 kg, 2.77m. Even a 18 month old cub, tigress 103 weigh 114 kg, 2.61m.

Where is the refernce for me to read this?

That's proof that female Bengal averages much heavier and longer than Mazak figures. Males too, 105 3.1m, 102 2.92m, 104, 18 months old, brother of 103, weighed 160 kg and 2.89 m long. All straight measure. I've nothing against Mazak, because he didn't know about live specimens, so he relied on some scientific sources to come up with the fig 100-130, but those sources too, are guessworks. Btw, the 384 kg is so notorious, everyone knows about it(though it's garbage), thanks to media. Schaller mentioned the 320 kg(705 lbs) from Nepal in 1942. I read the book a while ago, it's not avail. in library now(lost), but I place an order. As soon as it comes in, I'll give u the words.

Okay, i think I also will buy it. I think we should wait with edits until one of us has the book, and we have the exact text passage.

All the myth about Northern Bengal is rubbish. The only confirmed superior tigers are those from Assam and Myanmar, with those from kaziranga being an example. Apart from Sunquist, Valmik Thapar himself, in his book: land of the tiger, also observed an ERNOMOUS tiger of Kaziranga being chased by a wild buffalo. Another report of a very large tigress jumps on top of elephant in Kaziranga national park, Assam.

http://www.toftiger.org/cgi/news/news.cgi?t=template&a=5

That said, apart from Assam, Nepal tigers or Northern Indian tigers have no size advantage compared to other Bengal. Nagarahole tiger ecology project (1986-1995), conducted by Dr. Ullas Karanth, a student of Mel Sunquist, provides some insight:

1 tigress, aka Sundari, weighed 150 kg. Another, T-02, weighed 177 kg, 2.5m. T-03, adult male, 257 kg, killed by a gaur. T-04, 3-4 year old male, 250 kg, 2.9m. T-01:old male, 231 kg. he mentioned another 240 kg collared male starving to death with broken canines. publications: The tiger:Power and fragility; Predator-prey relationships among the large mammals of Nagarhole National Park (India). Karanth, K.U. 1993a. Ph.D. thesis, Mangalore Univ., Mangalore. One more female, aka Bigfoot, has pugmark as big as a male.

A PhD. thesis is not a good refernece. A published paper is atually the minimum for such debatable changes. Another problem is that I can not find it in the net. Do you have it, can you send it to me?

You see, all the weight suggest a 245 kg average for male, and no fem. < 150 kg. Higher than Nepal, no? This to end the myth of Nepal tigers. There's another ecology prj in Panna, Central provinces, I'm trying to find reliable ref. Btw, Walker's is an encyc., not a specialist book of a particular species, so it should only be treated as a gen. ref, at lower level than specialist books or papers.

And now, Siberian vs Bengal. Mazak, as I said, no data he held, save for the 306 kg, so it was just pure speculation. Siberian averages < Bengal. I already said about it, and now, with even more specimens, I think it's all over now. Have a look, my friend! Another evidence from Baikov:

www.tigers.ru/books/baikov/he1.html

I can not open this page.

Ignoring all the BS of average weight, focus on live specimens he mentioned. You got it, long and light Siberian. Stay tuned...I'll be back.

Okay. I will be on hollyday for the next three weeks. When I come back, we have to discuss probably again. greetings--Altaileopard 09:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can't , me too, it's taken off the net, probably too valuable to give for free any longer. Luckily I saved a copy, heh. So, how can I send it to u?

All Nepal specimens are from the book: Tiger moon, 1988. Now, all of Baikov specimen accounts are reliable, according to Dr. Ullas Karanth. Here are the words:"Informative, if not wholly accurate regional accounts of tigers were published by Nikolai Baikov in Russia, William baze in Indochina..."(Karanth, 2001). Great stuff! Karanth also said in the same book, that measured bengal and Siberian specimens are about the same size.

First, I gave you the words from Big cats:Kingdom of might.Cheer up, most books I'v read so far, the authors, haunted by the continous bombard of media propaganda about the Siberian thruout the 20th century, say that Siberian biggest. Nevermind, they said it without any evidence, rather, a social obsession. At least the honest Tom brakefield, though still saying Siberian biggest, gave us some instances of bengal tiger larger than 300 kg. He didn't mention the notorious 384 kg (words in brackets are mine): "Though the bengal tiger (BT) may reach the same length as the Siberian tiger, it's less massive(my sympathy, he derived this from all the ref. he read)... The longest accurately measured BT, recorded in 1907, stretched 10 ft, 7in or 3.22m , of which, 3 ft, 7in was tail, and weighed a surprisingly light 491 lbs (this one killed in the terai). A huge male killed in Nepal in 1942 weighed 705 lbs, while another giant, killed in India in 1910, weighed 700 lbs, and spanned 9ft, 11.5 in in length. However, all of these are dwarfed by a gigantic cat killed in Northern India in 1967(the same province Corbett shot the Bachelor), which measured 10ft, 7in and weighed a mind-boggling 857 lbs". The largest mentioned Siberian is 771 lbs, in 1934. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This is probably the last answer berfore my hollidays. Actually you should be able to write an e-mail with the button on the left side. But perhaps that is working only on my german account. I can not find the book "tiger moon".

Another thing: I have often problems to follow your references and from where your datas are respectively. From where is this passage for example? :

Though the bengal tiger (BT) may reach the same length as the Siberian tiger, it's less massive(my sympathy, he derived this from all the ref. he read)... The longest accurately measured BT, recorded in 1907, stretched 10 ft, 7in or 3.22m , of which, 3 ft, 7in was tail, and weighed a surprisingly light 491 lbs (this one killed in the terai). A huge male killed in Nepal in 1942 weighed 705 lbs, while another giant, killed in India in 1910, weighed 700 lbs, and spanned 9ft, 11.5 in in length. However, all of these are dwarfed by a gigantic cat killed in Northern India in 1967(the same province Corbett shot the Bachelor), which measured 10ft, 7in and weighed a mind-boggling 857 lbs

But anyway... I must say, that this text sounds uncritical and a bit lurid to me in comparison to Mazak, who gave the tigers size and the problems about measuring them a whole chapter. As you might have regonized in the meantime, I am very very critical about the exeptional large tiger giants. Moreover their existence would not say, that the bengal tigers are larger on average than siberian tigers. For this conclusion, we need any referneces, which say exactly this. Everything else is original research, wo is forbidden for wikipedia.....Though the bengal tiger (BT) may reach the same length as the Siberian tiger This sentence does not say a lot about the sizes of the subspecies. I does not say the bengal tiger is larger, not even in case of some (probably unconfirmed) exeptional large males.

An intermediate result could be:

• Alomst all literature (scientific and popular) says the siberian tiger is on average larger than the bengal tiger.
• You say the opposite is true. Your mentioned literature is still doubtful to me. (Sorry, but I can not follow your references exactly for this statement. That does not mean, that I will exclude that. I have a book from John Sidesticker: Riding the tiger and I mean to rember, that it says the bengal form could be of the same size than the siberian. Unfortunately I found not one exact data of size in this book. But I will check this book for infos.
• You say Big cats:Kingdom of might is comparable in reliability to Mazak the tiger and walker´s mammals of the world. I don´t think that is the case.

Probaly we have to ask some other "specialists" about their opinion to this question.

I will be in the Altai for three weeks, where tigers were found in the southern slopes and as intruders until the middle of the 19. century. Here it was the caspian tiger, which was probably nearly as large as the bengal tiger (and in your view nearly as large as the siberian form.) --Altaileopard 14:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I want to send u the Baikov account of Siberian, what says you, if I create an email acct and give u the usernm & pwd to check? That Ok?

Now, we must be clear on the point of debate: Biggest subspecies. Speaking of this, we should consider average size. If Bengal(or Siberian) is lager on average, then that subspecies is the biggest. Science Lion records of 270 kg, and even 311 kg reliable hunting records have been found, still, it doesn't mean lion > Bengal or Siberian , as they average lower. We need to get this point straight before going further. You agree with this?

Now, u said:"Alomst all literature (scientific and popular) says the siberian tiger is on average larger than the bengal tiger.". But, most of them, if not all, hold no specimen data, they just follow each other's fashion, no? And I'm very sure that Walker's encyc. just copied data and statements from Mazak, check their ref at the back ;-)

I say, based on specimens, which speak louder than any of the above, we can come up with new conclusion. I'll get u exceprt from tiger moon and Karanth papers next time. But first, let's talk about Pocock ref. of gaur carcass 13 men cant move. It's a reliable ref, with the prestige of Reginald Pocock, great zoologist of early 20th century. His work has been ref. by many great authors, inclu. Mazak himself. So, don't edit out this account. 2nd, Dr. Alan Rabinowitz of WCS , with a camera trap survey, revealed about 60 tigers in Huakaung valley, Myanmar in 2002. . Here's the excerpt from "Black Market:inside the endangered species trade in Asia". This book is new, u should be able to get to it(and see what's really happening to these species, that most publications overlook): "in late 2002, a team of wcs researchers led by Tony Lynam, a young Aussie biologist, spent 2.5 months usrveying the most promising jungle sites in Hukaung valley. They also collected some 4000 photos from special infrared cameras strapped to trees. The finding indicated there could be as many as 60 tigers in this remote valley, perhaps the largest viable tiger population in Myanmar." And then, in 2004, Huakung valley tiger reserve of 8400 sq miles was created. So, please don't edit out this either.

Back to size, let's list all specimens we have: first, Cnetral India, Panna tiger ecology project conducted by Dr.Raghu Chundawat, two males of 250 kg:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/323feature3.shtml

Regarding specialist opinion, I got 3 for you next time. I'll be back for excerpt from Nagarahole, Chitwan, Siberia.

"I have a book from John Sidesticker: Riding the tiger and I mean to rember, that it says the bengal form could be of the same size than the siberian." . U know why? Cos he was with Mel Sunquist in chitwan project in 1970s, so he knows.

Just one more thing for this time: Can u get me the detail of the 270 and 306 kg SIberian tigers? How are they captured, what year, where, and how are they weighted? Cos' Scientists usually bring inadequate scales. I love to have more specimens for my tiger collection.

Unfortunately that's the only male lion I saw at Tsavo. I also saw two lone females and a group of lions resting in the grass with only their ears visible. This National Geographic article might be of interest, though. Regards, Mgiganteus1 12:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I thought we'd try and get the whole capitalization issue sorted before we lionized further so I wanted to get everyone's feelings on it - can you please input into the capitalization debate on lion talk page.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since I have seen your posts on the Snow Leopard talk page, I wonder if you could take a look at Talk:Snow_Leopard#Recent_Changes. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

just pointing out that the eland quote is correct - you may read the articles at [10] - also, I have a great many very good leopard and lion photos if you whish to add them to the sites you are editing. If so, I can download them.

Profberger 17:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I do not understand that with the eland. Which edit do you mean? Really good images are always nice, but I think especially in case of lion there are already many good pictures at wikimedia commons. Some good images of wild leopards would be still desirable.--Altaileopard 08:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, you mean that Talk:leopard#Eland. I don´t want to exclude completely, that a leopard can kill an eland. But this page is not a reliable refernece to me. And an adult eland is very Iarge. I once saw on TV a female leopard attacking a injured Hartebeest, and even that animal was to much for the cat.--Altaileopard 12:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This video could be of interest.--Altaileopard 15:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A colleague of mine and I published the paper in question documenting the kill of an adult eland by a leopard. As you may note in the references, leopard have in fact killed animals as large as eland and young giraffe. I have a number of good leopard photos. Where would you like me to download them?

Profberger 16:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The PDF did not open when I tried it for the first time, but now it works. It looks like a reliable source to me. You can write in the leopard article, that leopards kill in rare cases even adult elands. Please add a citation to that edit. If you do not know how to do that, just ask. At Wikimedia commons you can create an account and than it is very simple to upload Images.--Altaileopard 16:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your leopard images are really good. Thanks.--Altaileopard 10:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]