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Hip-hop Start‑class

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In his songs, Immortal Technique talks about he will "expose George Bush and Bin Laden/ as two seperate pawns of the same seven-headed dragon"* and that the media claims some Iraqis "still fight for Saddam/ But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong"* but never seems to present any proof whatsoever. Dude hasn't brought one single motherfucking shred of evidence to the table. Never! If you wanna be taken seriously, make it clear that the whole FBI investigation thingie nothing but a rumor started by Technique himself, unless you can prove it. He has proven to the world that he's nothing but an embarrasingly paranoid, highly overated bullshitter. But appearently, you didn't care and let his promotor write the article, or something. It amazes me how he's gained such an enormous fanbase that never questions what the fuck he raps about. If he'll ever truly prove any of his claims I'll take back my every word and even let him punch me in the balls a few times. Until then, change your shitty article. More preferbly, throw the whole thing away. But if you must keep it, note out that he's a compulsive liar and painfully hypocritical. A guy who whole-heartedly supports ethnonationalism and talks about how "his people where here first"** criticizes nationalism and American patriots. What the fuck is that about? Oh well, we can only hope that by the time his next album drops, his whole fanbase of retarded teenages who think it's all cool and sexy to talk about conspiracy theories have grown up and/or moved on to another artist.

Well You are complaining he has no evidence. I think if he had an evidence he would be dead by now. Why don't You wake up? Do You really believe what You hear, see or read in the medias? Do You trust Your president? Are You one of those people who belive that the war in Iraq is for freedom and not for oil? And please don't tell me You don't know the Bush family was doing and probably still does business with the Bin Laden clan. I guess people are right - ignorance is bliss.

* The two quotes derives from his songs "Cause of Death" and "Bin Laden (ft. Mos Def)" respectivly. Now, I ain't saying the media doesn't claim there are Saddam supporters fighting American troops in Iraq. I don't watch the news enough to know, my point was he never showed us why it's totally wrong.

**"they say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam, that's bullshit. I'll show you why it's totally wrong. Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight, it'd be warfare through harlem and Washington Heights. I wouldn't be fighting for Bush or White America's dream, I'd be fighting for my people's survival and self esteem. I wouldn't be fighting for racist churches from the south, my nigga. I'd be fighting to keep the occupation out, my nigga."

Sincerely /Fredrik (User:Illiteracy)

In that song, he is saying it's totally wrong that the resistance's goal is to reinstate Saddam. He then uses America as an example. If America were invaded, there would be a resistance, but the resistance wouldn't neccesarilly be fighting to reinstate Bush. He's implying that all native Iraqi's want is control of Iraq, they don't necessarily want the old dictatorship back.

Alright. I'll buy that. Thanks for clearing that one up. 1 down, 4999 outrageous claims to go.

I think the 4 non arabs claim below is his most outrageous. It has absolutly no backing. ShadowyCabal 07:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• • In an interview for dubcnn from last year, Technique talked about how he never said "fuck America" because this is his home, and his people where here first. Instead he wants to make it better.

kid, stick to 50. and dont post here. --80.134.159.37 01:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously? Are you retarded?! What the fuck does 50 have to do with any of this?! I don't even like 50. I admit tho, if we talk about how he spits, Technique is alright. What I don't like is the amount of bullshit he spits out. And if you can't prove any of that nonsense, then, kid, stick to swalloing tablets of cyanid or something equally lethal, fuckboy.

Tehnique is alright? No nigger, your mom's pussy is alright. Your people gettin shot dead in the street. That's alright!

Once again, what the fuck does this have to do with anything? If you're so fucking hard for Immortal Technique, then prove his claims. Or do you just assume he never lies, makes shit up or gets alot of his bullshit from questionable sources? Go watch out for the CIA trying to assassinate you or something. And yes, seeing my people getting shot dead in the streets is amusing indeed.

Prove what claims? the one about Iraqi Resistance is explained above. and the seven headed dragon thing... Power corrupts. We've had propaganda for over 60 years. Wars are invented, I can feel it in my gut. Can't you? No one can prove that Bush and Bin Ladin are conspiring, but intelligent critical people know there's more to it than what is staged on TV. So yes, it's an unfounded claim, but my heart tells me its right. -ShadowyCabal 18:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, ok. So your fucking gut instinct is your ultimate source of truth? Come on now. I need something abit more solid than that to become a believer. I know the world is truly messed up and alot of people are sitting on too much power, but claiming stuff like Bush and Bin Laden are conspiring is just gay. The claims alone are worth jackshit when backed by 0 proof. I don't wanna rob you of your right to trust your inner organs to tell you what's true, but this bullshit article shouldn't have been written by some braindead groupie. Mere rumors and retarded claims are phrased as facts. That's wrong.

Also, saying they're part of the same seven-headed dragon doesn't mean they are conspiring. It just means they're both evil. Evil and powerful. You could jump to the conclusion that the evil powerful people on top are conspiring, but it doesn't really matter. The point is you can't trust the information you're being fed. Bush and Bin Laden in it together is as arbitrary a theory as Nick Berg being alive, but it carries with it a sentiment that everything should be looked at with a critical eye. The music has a philosophy to it; Act like you are totally responsible for what's going on in the world, and never mind those greedy douchebags in suits, give em hell for me. The whole ultra-left "Rage Against the Machine" philosophy is a cliche among know-it-all white college kids with lots of idle time, but that doesn't mean that it's not good. ShadowyCabal 07:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For what it is worth, if Immortal Technique tomorrow claimed that the moon were made of green cheese and rocks are an invention of the Regan adminstration, it would probably be included in the article. The distinction is that this page should not advocate for his point of view, only report it. Advocacy for a cause has no place on Wikipedia (see WP:NPOV). However Immortal Technique's politics are notable (whether they are based in fact or not), so what he believes should be discussed. If you think this distinction is not made clearly enough in the article, feel free to change it or suggest how it should be changed. --TeaDrinker 17:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, a very very senseful person!

This is the stupidest crap ive ever seen. Its a wikipedia article about him, you can include a critisim and controversy section in the article, but just coming to the talk page and bitching about how the page doesn't express YOUR bias is stupid. It seems your problem is more with immortal technique then the wikipedia article, and if so, why dont you go bitch at fanboys at immortal-technique.com.

Exactly, this article isn't supposed to MAKE OTHER PEOPLE believe these conspiracy theories, it is supposed to report them, and that is it. By the way, I think metaphors are a foreign language to the guy that started this whole discussion. Obviously Immortal Technique doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE THING he says literally, the thing with Bin Laden is that both Bush and Bin Laden are evil, that is what Immortal Technique is saying, if you don't get that, then maybe you should be sent back to grade school. --- Efil4tselaer (talk · contribs) 15:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This one guy seems to be a Tech hater. Which is obvious given his rants. Of course, if you listen to Technique's songs, then it will sound like he has no evidence, but maybe instead of just looking at a 3 minute, 48 bar work of art in which stating evidence would only hinder his main message by taking up space, you should look at his interviews, his articles, hell anything he does outside of the songs. He explains a lot through interviews, or simply writing a letter to him (which i did). Also, what kinda of lazy ass dude are you that you expect a man with obviously more intellegence then you to explain every little thing to you? Go look that shit up for yourself. Hey since you're so lazy let me help. Find the movies Loose Change I and II. Dig through old news reports, you'll find things on the four bombers at the washington bridge...and if you listen to the song "they disappeared from the news PERMANENTLY" its hard to find that shit, but digging will get you there. Don't rely on Tech to give you the fucking world, go out and try to learn somehting for yourself. 69.80.162.102 14:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)Theonlyone[reply]

Immortal rhymes lyrically, he's rythmically creative, his flow is pleasant to the ear. You really expect him to cite sources and argue logically while still rhyming? Come on! His lyrics aren't trying to prove an argument, they are stating his opinion. Lighten up, and maybe do some research yourself on his claims, i.e. Reagan funding bin Laden in the 80s. Id bet you could find a good amount of info on the subject on wikipedia. -Simon Crestworth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.30.210 (talk • contribs)

"And to the niggaz that write this website with friend requests one day and then talk shit to my staff the next day because I'm making moves and can't talk to you personally...grow up nigga. Big L said it best "You fuckin male groupie you oughta be ashamed of yourself." I only work on music, hood power moves, and Revolutionary projects with soldiers, not bitches. And I don't mean 'bitches' as in women. Because women are strong, they are beautiful, intelligent, they have carried us through all our hardships and they gave birth to Revolution. I mean bitches like ya'll niggaz ain't a men or a women, you're like the fuckin' dogs described in Qu'ran, animals that eat food off the floor and carry germs. Little Shaytan dicksucking ass niggaz. Fuck outta here. If I had the time I'd burn your mothers house down you half a fag fruit pop mandarin name droppin no talent fake fuck. I hope you talk the talk when you see me in person and don't try to get close to me trying to act like you down with this movement." - taken from http://www.immortal-technique.com/home.html

There, he actually posted that message concerning some tour he was on, I hope you dumbasses can finally get that in hip hop bitches isn't always used as an insult to women.

PS- For some reason, it wouldn't let me post this comment because it said all myspace links were blacklisted so I had to remove them, if there is a way to post comments without removing them, then I'm sorry, but I do not know how and it said I should just remove all of the links that lead to the blacklisted sites. --- Efil4tselaer (talk · contribs) 23:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also I found this from the same website,

"... It is a progressive step and a life changing process that forever restructures an individual such as Malcolm-X- and founding members of the Zulu Nation. However, a Revolutionary that becomes a gangsta is usually one that has become corrupted by power. A gangsta is in the business of extortion, gambling, murder, and prostituting our greatest resource and the soul of our people, our women. ...".

He says women are our greatest resource and the soul of our people, honestly, you guys take lyrics much too seriously. --- Efil4tselaer (talk · contribs) 23:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moved dated discussion to archive pages.--NPswimdude500 01:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added that Immortal Technique will be on the Rock The Bells tour this summer. -Bruno

I do not understand why you keep reverting my edits, I added categories, fixed some links such as [[2001]] to [[2001 in music]], added a link to the theory of the controlled demolition of the WTC, and a few other things. Why do you keep reverting to an old version? What you are doing is you are trying to take possession of this article, which is wrong. You keep reverting to a previous version of the page because you don't like how the "External links" section is made. Now, to show you that there is no need for how you formatted the "External links", or that it is actually wrong, I am going to use the Dr. Dre article as an example:

• You change [http://www.viperrecords.com/ Viper Records official website] to [http://www.viperrecords.com/ viperrecords.com] Viper Records official website. What is the point of doing that? Here, look at how Dr. Dre's article links to his Aftermath Entertainment label (I am not the one that made it like that, in fact, I barely edit the article): [http://aftermath-entertainment.com/ Aftermath Entertainment website]. There, another article uses it like that, why do you keep changing it to where it says "Viper Records official website" outside those brackets?

• You change [http://www.babygrande.com/artists.jsp?artist=14 Biography of Immortal Technique at Babygrande.com] with a free MP3 download of "Bin Laden" to [http://www.babygrande.com/artists.jsp?artist=14 babygrande.com page] with free mp3 download of ''Bin Laden'' (you used to put "Bin Laden" Pt. 1, until I told you there's only "Bin Laden", and "Bin Laden (Remix)"). First of all, when I first read that, I thought it might be something like some MySpace page or something like that, like an unofficial website or whatever, but when I checked to see what it is, I saw it is just a biography of Coronel. That is why I changed it, because it describes it better, it tells you it is a biography, not just the rather vague "babygrande.com page". Also, I am telling you to write "MP3", as "MP3", not "mp3", look at the MP3 article, it writes it as "MP3" all the time, so maybe we should write it like that article does, if they wanted to write it like "mp3", we could write it like that, but since they are writing it like "MP3", then we should use it as they are using it. I for one trust that article more than I trust you.

• You change [http://not-in-our.name/redir/immortaltechnique/ Immortal Technique discography website] complete list of recordings to [http://not-in-our.name/redir/immortaltechnique/ Immortal Technique Discography Site] complete list of recordings. First, it is not "Site", it is "Website", so again you are wrong. Second, if we do not capitalize "Viper Records official website", then we do not capitalize "Immortal Technique discography website". You do not capitalize those words. See here [http://www.dubcc.com/forum/index.php?topic=30148.0/ Dr. Dre productions @ Dubcc.com], it only capitalizes his name, but not productions, so just leave it like that.

• Also, you removed all of my categories (although there are other things I can say that you removed while you reverted, this is the most important one):
  • Category:Rappers known by pseudonyms
  • Category:People from Manhattan
  • Category:Freestyle rappers
  • Category:Rappers
  • Category:Underground hip hop musicians
  • Category:Hip hop musicians

You even have the nerve to call my edits vandalism. I mean, no matter what, MY edits are not vandalism, even if I am not right and you might be right about how you write those external links, my edits are certainly not vandalism, for one, if they are wrong, you did not show me any proof, or anything, and second, I am using another article as an example, so the way I am writing it is used by other articles too. Also, you are the one who is vandalizing because you removed the categories. I suggest you stop, and stop using rude, vulgar, and insulting summaries, like when you said I'm "stupid as fuck". --- Efil4tselaer 20:21, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]