Megumin (talk||history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

The article has been expanded upon since the last deletion/redirect post. There is no reason for it to be merged. If merged into the proposed page, the blurb for the character will become too long.

Editing my point as people pointed out that I didn't expand on it so I'll expand it using the reply I replied to Cyrptic under.

"I did not look into the history and see that template but the talk page of Megumin still says "This article was nominated for deletion on 26 September 2022. The result of the discussion was merge."

I created this deletion review because I don't believe it warrants a nomination for deletion anymore. The deletion request itself also states the merge which can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Megumin. I am contesting this deletion request under the premise that it no longer warrants a nomination for deletion. Like you pointed out in your comment, it was so quickly removed under "false pretenses" despite the decision being made to merge the page.

If the talk page still says it is a candidate of deletion, it should be taken that it is a candidate for deletion. I looked into how I could contest this deletion nomination. I looked into Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion but considering the page has not been deleted yet, it would not fall under that title. There were multiple people involved in the discussion of the deletion so even if I was to post under there, it still wouldn't fit the criteria.

I agree that the Megumin page is a little bit of a weird unique spot due to it having information that could be put into a blurb and doesn't need its own separate page to be expanded upon. Despite this unique situation, there are is also information regading the character that would infringe on the whole purpose of the list of characters, this being that it is supposed to summarize what the character is about. If we merged the page, it would cause information in certain sections to be nonexistent and unable to be added to the blurb. An example of such is the reception section which would be quite difficult to put into the blurb of the list without expanding on it in the blurb itself. This could be potentially confusing for people who are only looking for a summary of the character, not what fans think of the character.

Considering the fact that this article would not fall under Wikipedia:Proposed deletion due to the deletion request having objections throughout the discussion of deleting the page makes this deletion review valid.

In addition, the edits that have been made since the deletion discussion have expanded upon the character tremendously. This makes the nomination for deletion questionable. If Megumin's page has been expanded upon to include information that would be difficult to put in a blurb, does it require a nomination for deletion?

Finally, the last point I want to make to contest this nomination of deletion is the fact that Megumin's page gets a lot of views on her page. There are clearly people interested on what the character is about so limiting the information on what the character is about would go the whole point behind this article: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility

This article doesn't just imply the accessibility to making web pages easier to navigate and read, but it in another way also means that people should have access to all the information which is expanded upon here: Wikipedia#Readership. In particular, the article states, "Wikipedia has steadily gained status as a general reference website since its inception in 2001.".

If Wikipedia is used as a reference website and the information on Megumin cannot be condensed into her blurb without it interfering with the whole purpose behind the page being a list of characters (summarizing what the character is about and their significance to the plot), then this deletion review has a valid argument."

Edit note: I'd like to correct myself, the article didn't imply it, it stated that accessibility is about web pages being easy to navigate. I misworded it when I wrote it. Just wanted to clear that up.

In addition, I want to add a few other things that I forget to add in that reply.

Looking at Megumin's page, there is also a section for creation regarding the character. Merging the page to this would remove all the information in that section (which includes images and sources). Removing the page would completely remove a lot of information as the page would lose a lot of substance regarding the character as the information would be forced to be condensed.

Thank you for those who pointed this out and I hope this helps for those who want a better understanding behind the reason of why I created the deletion review.

Reader of Information (talk) 13:57, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• If there was a process error here, it was that the afd-merge-to template was so quickly removed under false pretenses. —Cryptic 14:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I did not look into the history and see that template but the talk page of Megumin still says "This article was nominated for deletion on 26 September 2022. The result of the discussion was merge."

  I created this deletion review because I don't believe it warrants a nomination for deletion anymore.

  The deletion request itself also states the merge which can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Megumin. I am contesting this deletion request under the premise that it no longer warrants a nomination for deletion. Like you pointed out in your comment, it was so quickly removed under "false pretenses" despite the decision being made to merge the page.

  If the talk page still says it is a candidate of deletion, it should be taken that it is a candidate for deletion. I looked into how I could contest this deletion nomination. I looked into Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion but considering the page has not been deleted yet, it would not fall under that title. There were multiple people involved in the discussion of the deletion so even if I was to post under there, it still wouldn't fit the criteria.

  I agree that the Megumin page is a little bit of a weird unique spot due to it having information that could be put into a blurb and doesn't need its own separate page to be expanded upon. Despite this unique situation, there are is also information regading the character that would infringe on the whole purpose of the list of characters, this being that it is supposed to summarize what the character is about.

  If we merged the page, it would cause information in certain sections to be nonexistent and unable to be added to the blurb. An example of such is the reception section which would be quite difficult to put into the blurb of the list without expanding on it in the blurb itself. This could be potentially confusing for people who are only looking for a summary of the character, not what fans think of the character.

  Considering the fact that this article would not fall under Wikipedia:Proposed deletion due to the deletion request having objections throughout the discussion of deleting the page makes this deletion review valid.

  Furthermore, the edits that have been made since the deletion discussion have expanded upon the character. This makes the nomination for deletion questionable. If Megumin's page has been expanded upon to include information that would be difficult to put in a blurb, does it require a nomination for discussion.

  Finally, the last point I want to make to contest this nomination of deletion is the fact that Megumin's page gets a lot of views on her page. There are clearly people interested on what the character is about so limiting the information on what the character is about would go the whole point behind this article: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility

  This article doesn't just imply the accessibility to making web pages easier to navigate and read, but it in another way also means that people should have access to all the information which is expanded upon here: Wikipedia#Readership. In particular, the article states, "Wikipedia has steadily gained status as a general reference website since its inception in 2001.".

  If Wikipedia is used as a reference website and the information on Megumin cannot be condensed into her blurb without it interfering with the whole purpose behind the page being a list of characters (summarizing what the character is about and their significance to the plot), then my deletion review has a valid point.

Reader of Information (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Correction, it's not that the article doesn't imply it, it states it. I misworded it when I wrote it. Just wanted to clear that up. Reader of Information (talk) 14:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse and execute the merge (uninvolved). The consensus was correctly interpreted and the eventual outcome was unilaterally subverted by an editor as noted by Cryptic. The appellant has not stated a rationale for why the merge consensus was wrongly reached or articulated what exactly would make the outcome different today ("the article has been expanded" is not a reason to overturn an AfD decision). Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Please check my reply to Cryptic's comment. I did add a valid point to my arugment. Reader of Information (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Correction, it's not that the article doesn't imply it, it states it. I misworded it when I wrote it. Just wanted to clear that up. Reader of Information (talk) 14:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry. Replied to the wrong comment. My bad. Reader of Information (talk) 14:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for pointing out my mistake. I've edited my original post to include what you pointed out. Reader of Information (talk) 15:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn to Keep. I see four !votes to merge, three to keep, and a nomination that can be read as supporting a merger or redirect. I see no reason to discard any of those views, nor to give any of them more weight than others. If the Keeps were Deletes, then a merge would definitely be the obvious ATD. But absent consensus, a merge cannot be an alternative to Keep. True, "the article has been expanded" is not a reason to overturn an AfD decision, but in this case, no expansion is needed, as the original close was incorrect. Owen× ☎ 15:04, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi,

  I agree that it was not written as merge but merging implies you delete the article to put the content into the redirected article. However, I edited upon my original post as people pointed out there was no substance. If you re-read the post I edited, I wrote the following, "Looking at Megumin's page, there is also a section for creation regarding the character. Merging the page to this would remove all the information in that section (which includes images and sources). Removing the page would completely remove a lot of information as the page would lose a lot of substance regarding the character the information would be forced to be condensed."

  This is a valid argument I made regarding it being merged. There is no forum (to my knowledge, feel free to correct me on this), that is used for reviewing merges.

  Considering the article was closed due to the consensus of it being merged, even if its incorrect, it does not deny the fact that some felt it should be merged.

  Hence, why this review was made because although the close was incorrect, the discussion regarding the deletion/merge was valid. Such, although the views shouldn't be neglected, it is still important to allow those who supported its merge to give weight to the situation even if it means contesting it on the review . Reader of Information (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I have trouble deciphering your reply, Reader of Information. Do you no longer want the article kept? If you still want the article kept as a standalone page, why are you arguing with me? I never claimed the views to merge were wrong, just that they failed to achieve consensus. Owen× ☎ 15:48, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry, English isn't my first language so sometimes I'll misunderstand. Re-reading your reply, I misunderstood what you wrote. I apologize. I do agree the article should be kept though. Reader of Information (talk) 16:12, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I apologize for the misunderstanding @OwenX Reader of Information (talk) 16:12, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Question - What exactly is being requested by the appellant? The AFD was closed as Merge, which, if I understand what that means, should have resulted in the article being cut down to a redirect after moving information from the article into the parent article. As Cryptic notes, that was not done. Is the appellant asking to undo the closure of Merge and so ratify the failure to merge? If so, are they saying that there was an error by the closer, or that there is new information, or what? Robert McClenon (talk) 21:10, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I am requesting for the decision to be overturned to keep the article and thus stop the merge. My reasoning behind this is the fact that it has not be executed yet and there is new information to the article that warrants its stay. This can be seen through the creation article. If we go to the target page and look at the section, it is a list to describe what the characters are about and their significance to the plot.

  Yet the information on Megumin’s page does not only include the information about the character but the history behind its creation as well as the reception of the character.

  Not only this but the fact that there was an error on the due process is why the opportunity for me to appeal this was allowed lol. 😂

  While it is important to keep in mind that Wikipedia is not the source of ALL information a lot of the arguments in the XFD were made about sources at the time of it being written. Looking at the article now, that reasoning has become invalid as the sources are well documented with over 36 sources being cited. Reader of Information (talk) 11:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse the merge, since the AfD's result is in question above - it wasn't a great discussion but you can't close that as keep because the keep argument that there was SIGCOV was rebutted. The problem is it's been almost two years and no merge has occurred. I cannot tell if the article currently passes GNG since it's a specialty topic area, and I haven't found really one that does yet but I could be wrong there. I don't really see a reason to enforce the merge at this point - my sense is that if anyone wants to send this for another AfD they should be able to do so. SportingFlyer T·C 22:05, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I disagree with the rebuttal under SIGCOV.

  All the rebuttal mentioned was that the fact that all they could find at the time was related to what the character was about.

  I believe that the article can pass because in one of the guidelines I remember reading it stated something along the lines of if the article cannot be explained outside of the article then it warrants its own page or something along those lines.

  This is a double edged sword as yes the article can be explained outside of the article and be put into one page but it also worth noting that if we were to condense all the information we would be missing information regarding the character regardless.

  One of Wikipedia’s main points is that if we are gonna transfer all the information we should make sure it won’t be too long. The issue with that is I think we barely can explain the situation of the character with its reception and creation without it warranting its own page which is also mentioned in the guideline I once read. I’ll reply to this comment if I can find what I was mentioning. Reader of Information (talk) 12:07, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @SportingFlyer Furthermore, I highly recommend you look at the sources page. There are over 12 sources relating to Megumin. I think it warrants enough attention under SIGCOV to be its own page. Reader of Information (talk) 12:15, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• No action. Nominator says There is no reason for it to be merged, but the article has not been merged years later, and so there is no need to do anything. The close has not been challenged so there's no need to endorse. Some comments: The discussion did not consider the target article. The reality is probably that there is nothing to merge. Content about Megumin had already been included in the suggested target and that content has only changed superficially since the AfD. All editors !voting merge wanted is for the Megumin article to stop existing as a stand-alone article. The first merge !vote in the discussion is purely an argument to delete with no reference to the target article (apart from merely mentioning it), followed by a "per X" and two additional inferred perexes. All of those are basically redirect !votes. The merge "consensus" is purely historical.—Alalch E. 09:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with the merge consensus being historical.

  Since the historical part of it no longer is accurate, I believe it should be kept which is why I am appealing the merge decision so the article is kept. Reader of Information (talk) 12:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There is no need for that, it was kept through the force of circumstance. —Alalch E. 13:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree. However, the talk page still lists as it being merged. It can confuse potential editors. Reader of Information (talk) 13:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That's not how discussions work. Deletion discussions don't expire if something goes wrong in the implementation process. The merge consensus has been crying out futilely for implementation for years, and must be implemented unless this discussion reaches a consensus to overturn it. And endorse that discussion since "merge" does seem like a reasonable reading of that consensus. And I don't find OwenX's argument to overturn convincing. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:40, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It's too late now, the article was significantly edited in the meantime. This is analogous to someone recreating an article after it was deleted. Sources were added etc. The consensus to merge is merely historical. It's like nothing ever happened. Advocating for merger now in a deletion review is also analogous to the situation (thought experiment follows) of the article actually having been merged, but then someone restores it and adds new sources; subsequently an appeal is made at DRV to replace it with a redirect. What does DRV have to do with it, and what outcome of a deletion review is that? —Alalch E. 19:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  No. I am not asking for a redirect. I’m asking for it to be kept. Reader of Information (talk) 20:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Alalch E. Reader of Information (talk) 20:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, that is understood. It doesn't matter what you're asking for, you started a process, the situation is being reviewed and various outcomes are possible. Different editors recommend different outcomes or no outcome in particular. Pppery recommends merging, and I disagree. I do not think that it is this forum's ambit now to form (or revivify or zombify) a consensus to merge the article. —Alalch E. 20:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi. The reasoning the merge was conducted was due to it not having enough sources. However, that has changed now with over 12 different unique sources. (Some are of the same company/website but 36 sources regardless is enough sources to make an article.)

  The reason I am appealing for the article to be kept is because it being merged into the said article would make no sense as if all the information was to be added to the redirected page, it would start to become a revelancy issue. This can be seen in the creation section and the reception section of the Megumin page. The redirected page that Megumin would be merged into is a list of the characters of the show. This said list is supposed to be giving a basic backstory behind the character and their importance to the plot, not every single little detail on the character. The list is meant to summarize, not explain every little detail about a character.

  I do not see how merging the Megumin page into the list of characters page would be of any benefit as the information on the page is of value for those who are interested in how Megumin was created by the author and what the audience thought of Megumin.

  The proposed article it is wanting to merge into is a list. Lists are not there to give all the information on said person unless the information known on the person is very small and doesn’t need its own page. This standard of not needing its own page however does not apply to Megumin which is why the article shouldn’t be merged into the proposed article.

• Saying the article should be merged is like saying that a good-quality product should be thrown away if it is of use to you. How would the reasoning that the merger was based on still be held to be a valid reasoning even years later after what Alache pointed out regarding the two pages. Remember, the target page of where Megumin would be merged into has changed very little since the discussion that the merge decision is based on. Meanwhile the Megumin page has changed a lot. What would be the benefit of having merging something into that hasn't been updated in years with information while the other page has changed a lot to include information that is of such value that it warrants to make it stand as a stand alone page? Reader of Information (talk) 20:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Logically it makes no sense. The Megumin page is of good quality. That is obvious. If you compare the purposes behind the two pages, it is evidently clear that merging the Megumin page into the proposed page would cause more harm than good. Reader of Information (talk) 20:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn to no consensus largely per OwenX. There was a slight majority supporting merge (considering the nom as such) as compared to keep, but reasonable policy-based arguments were made on both sides. I certainly do not see consensus to not keep the article, so NC is the most appropriate close. My opinion is based solely on the AFD, which I believe was closed incorrectly and not on any updates made to the subject page since the AFD. Frank Anchor 04:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]