List of UK Dance Singles Chart number ones of 1988 (talk||history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

What I would argue is this. The article for the charts in 1988 seems to have been deleted because the charts were not compiled by the Official Charts Company (OCC). However, what I would say is this: As an example, the The Official Big Top 40 is not compiled by the Official Charts Company, and therefore having the word "official" in the company name is by no means proof of de facto officiality, although OCC is clearly universally accepted as such by most people. Secondly, the deleted charts of 1988 were in fact compiled by the now defunct MRIB, who, were a rival to OCC (at the time called Gallup and then CIN) and were considered of equal importance and reliability to OCC. The OCC chart just so happened to be used by BBC Radio 1 and the now defunct Top of the Pops TV show. Pretty much every other TV and radio show of the day used the MRIB compiled singles chart. This may cause problems given that OCC is universally accepted as the "official" chart provider of the UK, however, I think on Wikipedia we have the opportunity to look into things in more detail and be more accurate. Also, I don't think OCC were compiling any rock or dance charts at this time, so MRIB's seem to be the accredited charts for them at the time. Cheers. QuintusPetillius (talk) 13:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that the Official Big Top 40 probably isn't a good comparison, because it's a WP:SINGLENETWORK chart, broadcast only on radio stations that are part of the Global network, and presumably only including an airplay component from their own radio stations. And as a technicality, Gallup wasn't the former name of the OCC – Gallup was the company who had the contract to compile the official charts between 1983 and 1994, when they lost the contract to Millward Brown, who still compile the chart data to this day for the OCC. But that's by the by... it's true that the MRIB were the biggest rival to the official charts at the time, but I don't remember if anyone apart from Capital Radio carried their charts in the 1980s – I believe NME might have done, which would make a stronger case for its reinstatement. Richard3120 (talk) 14:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Official Big Top 40 may well be a private Network chart but the point I am making is that just because the word "official" is used in the title does not necessarily make it the de facto official chart. I am aware that Gallup wasn't the former company name of OCC, but I was keeping it simple and they were the forerunner whose charts from 1983-1994 are still archived by OCC (then CIN). Melody Maker definitely carried MRIB's chart back in the 1980's. See external links: [1] and [2] . Both say: "Charts compiled by MRIB" at bottom of page. Certainly, MRIB's chart seems to have been most widely used in the 1990s but there seem to be a number of publications that published them in the 1980s too.QuintusPetillius (talk) 15:46, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, sorry, thanks for clarifying your position. I knew Melody Maker had also carried MRIB charts, but as the least dance music-friendly publication of all the UK music magazines I don't remember them including MRIB's dance charts, so I thought NME was the better bet. The other place where MRIB was used was on ITV's The Chart Show, but of course this is no use for verifiability purposes. Richard3120 (talk) 16:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, are you confirming that NME used to include the MRIB dance chart ? I have a source that says that the MRIB charts were published by NME: Barrow, Tony; Newby, Julian (2003). Inside the Music Business p. 90. I also have what appears to be a reliable published source at JSTOR; It requires registration but is free to read: Parker, Martin (May, 1991). Reading the Charts - Making Sense with the Hit Parade, Popular Music, Vol. 10, No. 2, pp. 205-217. Page 206 states: At the present time there are two large independent charts produced within the UK, the Chart Information Network (CIN) and the Network/MRIB (Media Research Information Bureau). I note that it refers to CIN as also being "independent". Next on page 207, while not mentioning the dance chart specifically, it does say: The MRIB also compile many of the specialist charts featured in the music press, catering for particular genres of music that are unlikely to gain enough sales to put them into either of the other major charts. This would seem to confirm that MRIB was of major importance when it came to publishing genre charts in the music press. There is also this press release from 2002 about the Smash Hits chart: ....data from entertainment research consultants MRIB, radio airplay and request data from Emap's interactive music TV channels The Box and Smash Hits TV to determine the position of a track.. That is from over a decade later but still confirms relevance of MRIB.QuintusPetillius (talk) 20:26, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wish I could confirm it... however, I'm 5,500 miles away from my collection of NME magazines to be able to confirm they printed the MRIB charts. :-/ Richard3120 (talk) 21:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• It is not in scope of deletion review to argue over the substantive content and merits of an article deleted at AFD. DRV is limited in scope in such cases to discussing whether the deletion process has been properly followed.
  Here, we have the nomination and one comment vaguely supporting deletion. This is not a consensus to delete. The appropriate outcome of the debate was relist, or soft delete.
  As such, the deletion process has not been properly followed. Overturn deletion and substitute soft delete as the closure, and treat this nomination as a request for undeletion, so the overall outcome is that the page is restored with liberty for anyone to list at AFD again should they so wish. Stifle (talk) 08:28, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, when will the page be restored ? It is still a red link. Thanks.QuintusPetillius (talk) 13:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This process will remain open for a minimum of one week whilst editors come to a consensus as to the appropriate course of action. You need to be patient. Stifle (talk) 13:44, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries I can be patient. @Richard3120 there is this issue of Music & Media that attributes the Dance and Disco charts in 1984 to MRIB: [3]. QuintusPetillius (talk) 17:27, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't actually argued for deletion yet – my worry is that we would need a strict criterion for what would be considered a valid chart. I've already argued with one editor who believed that in the absence of an official chart at the time from BMRB/Gallup, the Blues & Soul charts in the magazine were valid charts for R&B/soul singles in the 1970s and 80s. Record Mirror used to publish the Club Chart, Black Dance Chart, Hi-NRG chart, 12" Singles and Cool Cuts charts in the 1980s... are these any more or less valid than the MRIB chart? I'm just asking, because I don't know how they were calculated. But seeing as Record Mirror was published by the same publishers as Music Week and also published the official charts from Gallup, I'd bet that DJs took more notice of their charts than MRIB's. Richard3120 (talk) 18:28, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What DJ's took notice of after a song had charted is irrelevant. In its day MRIB's main Network Chart was used by pretty much every mainstream TV and radio show outside of the BBC. The MRIB chart was also very similar to the Gallup/CIN chart in terms of how individual songs charted and although there were often differences they tended to be small. I do not know who used to compile those Record Mirror charts, but unless it was a recognized chart provide, which MRIB was, then I think their inclusion on Wikipedia is questionable. I see MRIB as an established and reliable chart provider to the UK whose charts should therefore be acceptable on Wikipedia.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:07, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's my point – I'm not arguing for their inclusion, but I have no idea if they were any more or less official than the MRIB charts. Richard3120 (talk) 19:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]