- Dan Spilo (talk||history|logs|links|watch) (restore)
This page was speedily deleted as an attack page. While I cannot prove it without restoring the article, the page was neutral, did not make any unsourced allegations, and had several (I think seven?) sources from reputable, reliable sources (including Parade, Fox News, etc.). There were also claims made (according to the notices I got on my talk page) against the notability of the topic of the article, and there might be a debate on that, but I believe I gave enough to establish notability. Regardless, that would be a debate, not a speedy criteria. Again, for this to have speedily deleted seems absurd to me. Red Slash 01:19, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment this was deleted on WP:A7, WP:A10, and WP:G10 grounds. I would ask for a temporary undeletion, but if the G10 is correct this is better left to the admins. SportingFlyer T·C 01:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- As I say below, I don't think this is a defensible G10, but I'm going to hold off a temp restore out of an abundance of caution until at least one other admin looks at it and agrees. —Cryptic 02:33, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- This wasn't appreciably different from Survivor: Island of the Idols#Controversy in claims, tone, or sourcing, though the text is quite different. None of the three criteria it was deleted for seem defensible - it's not a G10 because it's not libel or legal threats, there's no reason to think it was intended to harass or intimidate, and - while entirely negative in tone - was not unsourced. It's not an A10, if for no other reason than that it's a valid redirect (as evidenced by the deleting admin immediately recreating it as one). And, while I dearly wish we lived in a world where appearing on Survivor was not a claim of significance and did not generate coverage in reliable sources, we don't, so it's not an A7. Overturn. Editorially, I think redirecting was the right call, but speedy deleting it first isn't defensible. —Cryptic 02:33, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, it's obviously not an A7, and it's not realistically an A10 (redirectable, but there's also a little more background on the guy, and (weirdly?) more details on why he got booted from the show. I don't see libel or legal threats, I don't think it's intended to harass or intimidate, and it's reasonably well sourced. So at least by the text, I don't think G10 applies. I think the article is likely to be redirected as is, since it's almost entirely about the show, but of course others sources may exist to justify a stand-alone article. WilyD 08:37, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Ugh. We're an encyclopedia, not a supermarket gossip sheet. This whole thing could be adequately covered in a couple of sentences in the main article. But yeah, none of the cited CSD fit,
so restore the history under the redirect. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:36, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- After reading Hut 8.5's comment below, I agree, WP:BLP1E applies, and we shouldn't even restore the history. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:41, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- At least with the listed sources, BLP1E probably does apply here. However, I'm extremely skeptical that it's a problem the material is in the history, when the page is a redirect that sends you to the same material. WilyD 08:23, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:OSE. The amount of space devoted to Spilo in the main article isn't justified either, per WP:UNDUE. Most of that should be revdel'd. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Uhm, did you even glance at the page before linking it? It's wholly inapplicable. As far as UNDUE, it's possible that you're right, but I'd also not be surprised if you're wrong, and the scandalous bits are the only bit of Survivor: The 544th iteration that attracts any attention in sources. WilyD 09:19, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- With G10 being invoked (and, while seemingly wrong, not an obvious misclick or something), I suspect we're all very reluctant to undelete without an absolutely clear consensus. If you're worried about an immediately AfD if deleted, the best practice is probably to leave it as a redirect until you have a draft ready to go then go for it. WilyD 06:01, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- A version of the article pre-deletion is on the Wayback Machine, just for the record. There are a bunch of claims that needed to be speedily removed - or speedily referenced - for violating BLP, but the article could have been stubified and I would not consider a Survivor contestant as eligible for A7 deletion. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:53, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Just in the US, there's been 38 seasons, roughly 20 contestants per season, so 750-ish. Times a bunch of franchises in other countries. So, figure thousands of contestants total. I disagree that being a member of that group of thousands of contestants is a legitimate claim of importance or significance. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:50, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that it is not in and of itself sufficient for notability. I sincerely believe that the vast amounts of independent (non-industry) media coverage of Spilo and his actions have made him notable. I've been an editor for well over a decade at this point; I know the notability policies. Red Slash 18:32, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but A7 is about significance, not notability. Being a contestant in a very well known work is not enough to make someone notable by default, but it does create enough "importance or significance" that I wouldn't consider it A7-able. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- My comment above was narrowly in response the idea that being a Survivor contestant, per-se, disqualifies A7. I agree that A7 doesn't apply to this particular article about this particular contestant. But, if I wrote an article about Sonja Christopher which said nothing beyond she was a contestant on Survivor, that would surely be A7 territory. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:40, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Having a regular role in a top television show is a CCSI; I don't see why it should be any different for a reality TV show than for a fictional one (since reality TV is fictional anyway). I think CCSI and N should be judged for a Survivor contestant the same as for any actor. – Levivich 06:29, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It's definitely not an A7 and we can argue about G10, but having this article strikes me as a really bad idea. This guy is and is likely to remain a low profile individual and his sole claim to fame is a bunch of incidents of sexual assault, so that's all we can write about in the article. The incident is covered in more than enough depth at Survivor:_Island_of_the_Idols#Controversy and a standalone article on this person is pretty clearly inappropriate per WP:BLP1E. I don't think we should restore it. Hut 8.5 19:02, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I would overturn on the basis that the article does not meet the above mentioned speedy deletion criteria. Being a Survivor contestant itself is not notable, however, being a significant contestant (like for instance winners, or highly regarded contestants like Ozzy Lusth, Coach (Survivor contestant), Russell Hantz, Jeff Varner, Rudy Bosch, Cirie Fields, etc, or someone notable for their actions on a show (like Dan) is notable. That's my opinion regarding Dan. However, I would not oppose to some work being done to the article and then seeing if it can withstand an AFD. DrewieStewie (talk) 04:43, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn and send to AfD. Not a G10. Definitely not an A7 or A10. At AfD, I would !vote "delete", it is a fan article, no encyclopedic content, BLP1E, the appropriate place to host this content is https://survivor.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Spilo. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:20, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse The article and its sources are terrible. Guy (help!) 00:22, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Well gee, thanks for that. I'm not sure being "terrible" in JzG's opinion is a speedy deletion criterion. Red Slash 14:58, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse in that the right result is to redirect it to the Survivor page (note: I have been involved in writing that section on that page). There is nothing prior to this season to make Spilo notable, and thus this is clearly a BLP1E situation. A likely search term , so redirect is right. --Masem (t) 23:54, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- It's plausible that this is a BLP1E situation. But that is not a criterion for speedy deletion. Red Slash 14:58, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn, I don't see how the speedy as an attack page is valid. The tone in the article, seems similar to detailed international mainstream media reporting that's come out since the DRV started, such as Global Canada CTV Canada (which is not the network that airs it), The Sun, UK, NBC USA (which is NOT the network it airs on) [2] (Fox USA - again not the network it airs on). Could be improved, but speedy not valid. Whether it should be an article, or just a redirect, is something that should be determined elsewhere. Nfitz (talk) 01:25, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse – This is a G10 in my opinion. Almost the entire article disparages the subject, taking what sources report as allegations and stating them as facts in wikivoice, and employing hyperbole to accentuate the negative (for example, does any RS state that he was "forcibly removed" as opposed to "asked to leave"?). Copyedit the article and insert the requisite "allegedly", and you still end up with a BLP1E. Redirect is the right outcome. – Levivich 15:32, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse the section in the season article is much more nuanced than the separate article, and gives full context. It's appropriate for WP to have the information, but it's not appropriate to highlight it by having a separate article out of context. I consider it a reasonable A10 because of that highlighting. A10 can apply not just because of the content, but because of the way it is presented. (I'm making essentially the same arguement as Levivich, but I read all the material before looking at he comments here) This is an illustration of my general view that A10 (& BLP in general) requires interpretation, not blind adherence to its wording. More than the other speedy categories, it's a matter of intent) DGG ( talk ) 18:44, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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