The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Lenz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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WP:BIO1E and WP:NMOTOR. This boy was only really notable for one event: his unfortunate death. All the other claims of significance are only sourced to his own blog. The levels he competed at fail our standards for significant coverage. This person just wasn’t notable. Tvx1 23:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Tvx1 23:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep. Couple thoughts.
  1. First off, notability can surface after death. This may not be BIO1E in which case, the subject would meet WP:BASIC. Eg. Associated Press notes: Despite being only 13 years old and listing his profession on the Grand Prix website as "kid," Lenz was already a well-known racer. He had been riding bikes for six years, won nine national championships and nine regional titles, and appeared to be a rising star in a series that bills itself as a prep for riders 12 to 18 who hope to compete at a higher level.[1]
  2. Also, this appears to be a notable death which would meet WP:EVENT on its own, and if the consensus is that that the BIO is not notable, it may still merit a rework and move to Death of Peter Lenz. Beyond the immediate news coverage there were reactions that followed. For example, All Things Considered on NPR had a segment on it discussing the impact of the death ProQuest has a transcript: [2]. Here's a columnist from The Oregonian with an opinion piece about it [3]. Here's the WSJ reacting [4]. (there are a lot more contemporary reactions, I won't list more)
     To demonstrate WP:SUSTAINED, here's some secondary coverage of a memorial from the following year [5], an editorial from about 5 months after [6], here's some coverage from over 7 years later[7], some coverage in French from 8 years after [8].

—siroχo 08:01, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Motorsport, Florida, and Washington. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:31, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Meets GNG, NSPORT SNG is optional. Perfectly fine with a discussion on renaming to be an event, but I don't think that should be an AfD-required outcome. Jclemens (talk) 19:53, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  No, his biography does not meet WP:GNG.Tvx1 14:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  You say that, but I find Siroxo's argument more compelling. Jclemens (talk) 02:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 01:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't really see notability, it says he won "national titles", but I get the feeling they're not terribly notable. I would think it is like playing in Little League baseball; you can win titles, but we only really worry about the Little League World Series, and even that is a stretch. Young kid with a bright future, passed away too young. Oaktree b (talk) 14:15, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Moreover almost of these are sourced to his own website only anyway. That's a major no-no.Tvx1 14:21, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If an individual is notable, sourcing non-contentious material from primary sources is not an issue. You have asserted, but failed to prove, that there are not two independent RS'es providing non-trivial coverage. Jclemens (talk) 02:47, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is not the sources being primary. The problem is the sources being self-published by the subject or his family/entourage and that the claims of significance of his achievements all strem from them. It seems you don’t the understand thr difference between secondary and independent sources ( which are NOT the same). It’s perfectly possible to have primary but independent sources. Tvx1 12:36, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per BIO1E. Known mostly for his death, and at his age (and brevity of career) made no significant contribution to the sport, with non-notable awards and racing series. Only wikilinks in the article are racetracks and locations. Article has a lot of filler and sounds almost promotional in tone with sources consisting mainly of press releases. sixtynine ^{• whaddya want? •} 22:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.