The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Scott Mac (Doc) 22:48, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

J. T. Wall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Never played professionally, fails WP:ATH. Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. —Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. —Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• DeleteNeutral without prejudice to restore. As article stands, there are no sources, and that pretty much clinches it for me. As for WP:ATHLETE, big deal. Checking sources shows that subject matter may be notable through general notability guideline and, should the article be re-written and these sources pan out to be of good quality, I would likely change my position.--Paul McDonald (talk) 02:57, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This article has been nominated for rescue. Silverseren^C 04:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I have tagged this article for rescue. Silverseren^C 04:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I have added sources that give notability. It appears that he played professionally in the NFL, which satisfies notability for WP:ATHLETE. Silverseren^C 04:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment while it doesn't look like he actually played in the NFL, I'm at least to neutral now. There's apparently some notabiity outside WP:ATHLETE and the article is coming together somewhat. Give it time to cook.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment WP:ATHLETE is deliberately ambiguous, in order to allow users to refine its for particular sports. J.T. Wall doesn't show up in player registers (such as http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ or the ESPN Pro Football Encyclopedia register or a team website all-time player list) since the standard for those is that the person has to have appeared in a game for an NFL team. A person who is on the active roster, yet never gets on to the field during the season, doesn't get included in reference books or websites. In that sense, it cannot be said that Wall "competed at the fully professional level of a sport". He was on the practice squad for the Pittsburgh Steelers, but never played in a regular season game, nor was he on the active roster. He played in preseason (exhibition) games for the Steelers and the Colts, but few people would consider that to be fully professional competition. As a taxi squad player, he was on the payroll of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but the same could be said for the secretary in the front office. WP:ATHLETE casts a wide net, but not that wide. I don't think he would pass under WP:GNG either. Mandsford (talk) 18:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, never actually appeared in an NFL game. I don't think our standard should be that merely being drafted justifies a Wikipedia article. NawlinWiki (talk) 03:39, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - Especially since the NFL Draft had 32 rounds at one point. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep meets WP:N and therefore WP:BIO and WP:ATHLETE (both defer to WP:N). Sources in article are enough. Hobit (talk) 05:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I'm not convinced that he meets WP:N, in that he didn't get significant coverage, and I don't think that he gets the free pass from WP:ATHLETE. It's important to note that WP:ATHLETE is something that presumes inherent notability for certain persons, meaning that it bypasses the entire debate over whether someone is "notable" enough. Someone who can be shown to have played for only one down in an NFL game in 1932 would qualify for a pro football register and would be automatically covered under WP:ATHLETE, notwithstanding other policies. I agree with Nawlin that we have to draw the line somewhere. Mandsford (talk) 21:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sources in the article certainly seem to be significant coverage in that at least a couple are solely about him...
    • [1]
    • [2]
    • Also 3 paragraphs in [3]. The other references are passing mentions but assume that the reader knows who he is... Hobit (talk) 23:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Google news search for this guy's name and the word "football" shows over two hundred results! [4] Dream Focus 00:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• This'll probably close as a no consensus, which works for now. Scout.com, of course, covers hundreds and hundreds of athletes, as would any scouting report that looks for potential stars. I'm not at all surprised that a Georgia Bulldog would have an article about himself in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, or that a Steeler draft pick would be written about in Pittsburgh and the surrounding area. However, there's a good deal of support for J.T., and I can see arguments for and against his inclusion. Mandsford (talk) 01:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand. I guess my thought would be that the coverage doesn't need to be surprising. He just has to be found "worthy of note" by reliable sources. I think those sources show that. Not great coverage I fully agree, but seemingly above the bar. Hobit (talk) 01:14, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.