Harold Ivory Williams Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet WP:GNG or WP:NENTERTAINER. While the article breathlessly claims Williams Jr. as a pioneer in the evolution of Contemporary Gospel music and Jazz fusion, this just isn't borne out by the available sources. The cited sources do not adequately provide secondary coverage of Williams Jr.'s life or accomplishments, and throughout the article claims of significance are backed up by listings in discographies (e.g. [1]) and the like.

Doing my own search for sources, I was able to find coverage of Williams Jr.'s evidently more-notable father, Williams Sr., which mentions Jr. briefly ([2]) and mere-mentions in catalogs (e.g. [3]), but nothing that would satisfy ntoability guidelines. The article's primary editor has a COI, which was acknowledged on their user talk page. I think that redirecting this page to Jr's notable father, Harold Ivory Williams, is appropriate here. I believe this still merits consideration at AfD rather than WP:BLAR, as it has been repeatedly been submitted and declined at AfC prior to being accepted by a reviewer. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Maryland. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Harold Ivory Williams is listed as a pioneer by virtue of the time period of the birth of the

both the Fusion (1959-1990) in particular the added element of Gospel (Harold Ivory Williams being the first to add the Organ with Gospel structured chords) on the "On the Corner" project with Miles Davis) and the transition of the conventional Golden Era Gospel to Contemporary Gospel as evidenced on of his solo performance at the Carnegie Hall) to Contemporary Gospel. Traditional Jazz did not have the element of electronic instruments (in particular the Fender Rhodes introduced in the 70,s as an example) as Fusion. The timing of the references demonstrates that he was one of the pioneers in that era and the first to add gospel element. In fact Miles sought him out because of that. Like wise, the Golden Era of Gospel that my father was a part of evolved in the late 60's but the jazz element began in the 70's. I attempted to demonstrate those claims with projects in the specific time frames. I used the word pioneer ^[1] because that is what a pioneer is according to your own definition. (Involving accomplishments or activities that have not been done before, or developing or using new methods or techniques) Someone that is a participatory factor in the beginning or birthing period. Both Miles Davis official website and James Cleveland's Carnegie Hall performance validate that claim.

As the author of the article, I would like to thank Wikipedia for allowing me to contribute. I vote keepWilliamsivy (talk) 18:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The argumentation you provide here would be reasonable for a magazine article or research paper to make. Wikipedia, however, is not a publisher of original thought; we want existing reliable sources to directly state what the subject is or isn't, not to infer it by association. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As a regular WP user, I found the article - about an artist unknown to me who contributed to some of my favourite songs - very informative and I thank the author. If anything, maybe delete the opionions or parts that do not seem to be to be within WP's bounds only or maybe and some sources. 95.98.136.193 (talk) 19:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am gathering sources that show that every musician on Miles Davis projects that include Harol Ivory Williams is given the respect of being recognized as a contributing pioneer to Jazz Fusion. Even many approved articles here on Wikipedia. Why would/should Harold's pioneering contributions to the evolution of Jazz Fusion be excluded or dismissed? Even Miles estate recoognizes his contributions to Fusions behinnings. I will list my claims later today in hopes that efitors at leady see the contridiction in acknowledging some on Wikipedia and denying others. I need to format my claims according to wiki preferences. Williamsivy (talk) 10:52, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please forgive my typos. Williamsivy (talk) 10:53, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the definition of COI and felt that I should explain my position. I am the last of the Williams bloodline, the executor of Harold's Ivory Williams estate, and the last to tell the story of their accomplishments. My brother fell ill on the cusp of international fame. He was recognized and validated by many greats as my parents knew most of them and his talent opened doors. I am still gathering documents to validate those claims. Their is no one else to tell the story. Once again, I am a believer in Wikipedia and a contributor, so I respect and graciously accept what looks like the decision to delete. I would also say that the categories that he would fit in contain the names of many that he mentored and worked along side who's only claim to fame was that they too established themselves in the genre. On another note; We need Wikipedia's contributions to the world and I will fight along side many others to protect and maintain it's right to exist. Williamsivy (talk) 12:45, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Should the unsung deserve being dismissed? Williamsivy (talk) 11:57, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am waiting for his Grammy Participation certificates on 2 separate projects. Would having a Grammy Certificate be considered notable? One is for the solo performance at Carnegie Hall as noted in the profile page. Williamsivy (talk) 15:45, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of notable subjects with notability established by set by criteria established via consensus of the community. Additionally notability is WP:NOTINHERITED by virtue of working with notable people. Not having a Wikipedia article is not a "dismissal" of anyone. Best, GPL93 (talk) 03:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  What is the purpose of the pages listed as the following: Category: American jazz pianists, Category: American male pianists, Category: Jazz fusion pianists, Category: American organists, Category: American keyboardists, Category:1949 births, Category: Musicians from Baltimore, Category:20th-century American pianists, Category: Jazz musicians from Maryland. I am genuinely confused as to why some qualify as notable and other do not. Surely he fits in those categories at the least. Williamsivy (talk) 11:56, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Categories are for sorting and organization, they have no bearing on notability. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:00, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]