The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was nomination withdrawn. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Nomination withdrawn with no other delete votes.

Butchered From Inside (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

NN "hacker magazine" with no sourcing, no assertion of notability, and more pixels for logo than for text. The original author is clearly an committed editor, but I can't find any reliable sources (news or elsewhere) to vouch for this publication's notability.

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 17:42, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Neutral I could go either way on this one. Given that its a somewhat niche market, I think the question is as much, is this group/site/publication notable within their community (e.g. hackers)? Stick their name in quotes and Google down on the English Google, and it seems borderline. Could this AfD remain open until a few Italian speakers can review this: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butchered_From_Inside and some Italian Google/news research on the group? I have a feeling it will probably end as a delete anyway, but we don't have to be in any rush, really. • Lawrence Cohen 18:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Asking for my benefit, doesn't this get tangled up in WP:LOCALFAME? Lots of NN things are notable among hackers. --- tqbf 18:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Obviously, as one of the authors and editors of the magazine, keep. May I point out that BFI is the first, foremost and most long-lived hacking e-zine in Italy, that it has published various paper editions, that it is being translated in English and in Spanish to overcome the language barrier, that is widely renown for being a difficult venue with criteria as stringent as Phrack (which in particular to the nominator are well-known :) ), and that some well known, published software such as KSTAT (Kernel Security Therapy Anti-Trolls) have been published and developed on it? --Raistlin 21:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1. Can you cite sources for those claims (the equivalence with Phrack, the recognition as "foremost hacking zine in Italy")?
2. Why are you editing an article about a small e-zine you edit? WP:COI.

Thanks for the response. --- tqbf 21:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• As for WP:COI I exercised great caution :) and as you may see, other people edited the article, so evidently they don't find it too biased or wrong. You are correct, creating that article was one of my first edits on Wikipedia, today I would probably avoid it - still, as neutrally as I can, I find it totally reasonable even today. As for the recognition, I suppose I won't find easily any non-Italian sources to point out. The BFI staff has been interviewed a number of times by in-print media, I can probably find online or pdf versions of that if you want to establish notoriety. I can remember, for instance, a 2004 interview on "ICT Security", the only Italian printed magazine on, well, you may guess the topic... :) It is reproduced in txt format here [1]. Google search gives more than 1000 hits in the long form of the name, more than 500 by looking for BFI S0ftpj. I am pretty sure that any Italian wikipedian can crosscheck and verify notability. I will yield to your collective opinion, of course. --Raistlin 22:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• BTW: content from S0ftpj, tipically published on BFI, is cited in at least 4 books. [2] --Raistlin 22:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Cited as "nice mag" on Phrack [3], cited on VX Heavens [4], and in mixed other archives such as [5] --Raistlin 19:40, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Can you get those into the WP article? I think we're converging on keep. --- tqbf 20:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Done, cross-check pls :) --Raistlin (talk) 09:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.