Welcome...

Hello, Smjwalsh, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Bobak 20:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can direct a page to another page if there are either multiple spellings or other reason for more than one version. All you need to do is replace the article's text with #REDIRECT [[Target article for redirect]]. I noticed the problem with Phineas F. Bresee and Phineas Bresee. --Bobak 16:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've uprated it to 'B', cannot assess any higher as it would have to go through A-class review department or Wikipedia:Good articles/Candidates. It's one of the longest articles I've ever seen, with a lot of sections from soures copied in. Would be good to create more links rather than reams of non-linked writing and, at the risk of sounding superficial would be nice to include some more pictures e.g. graphics. It would also be a good idea to make it more navigable/manageable, don't know if it would a good idea to hive-off some material into separate articles, there are also some tools for changing the way in references are presented e.g. the way it's done in David Cameron. Well done if you were the person who added all the material! Please make sure it's not original research or copyrighted. Tom 14:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smjwalsh, there are a few problems with your otherwise excellent article concerning Joseph Pomeroy Widney. The primary problem is that the article is far too long. It exceeds any other biographical article on Wikipedia by an order of magnitude. Please look over Wikipedia:Article size and Wikipedia:Summary style for more information. The normal target size for Wikipedia articles is around 30-50K. The Joseph Pomeroy Widney article is currently 179K. Another problem is the extended bibliographies. The bibliography of Widney's works needs to be renamed "List of works" to conform with Wikipedia conventions. It should be limited to his most notable works rather than being an exhaustive list. The lists of books, etc, that are related to Widney needs to be replaced with a list consisting solely of the works used as references for the article. This section should preferably be named "References". You can also create a small list called "Additional reading" or "Further reading", but those lists are not encouraged in Wikipedia articles. I'll make a couple edits to get you started on these revisions. If you implement the suggestions above and reduce the article length significantly, I have little doubt that this could become a featured article. Let me know if you have any questions. Kaldari 22:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your numerous edits to Church of the Nazarene! It would make it easier on us all, though, if you added your sources as referenced rather than in-text numbered links. I can get you some info. on how to do this, if you like. Just let me know! Take care, Smjwalsh. Aepoutre (talk) 18:15, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A tag has been placed on William Ament requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. BigDunc^Talk 20:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the speedy tag I added to give you more time to establish notability. BigDunc^Talk 21:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I came across the William Ament article and was very impressed. Ament's story is part of the Boxer Rebellion story. But it seems to me that the material on Mark Twain should be a separate article. Do you have plans in this respect? Would you object? ch (talk) 04:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I only came across Ament's name this morning, and after seeing no WP article, believed he needed. The Mark Twain material established Ament's notability, as it is the focus of his two most vituperative anti-imperialistic articles. To remove the Twain material would almost certainly remove the need for the Ament article. I plan to at least put some reference to the Ament-Twain controversy in the main Twain article.smjwalsh (talk) 06:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now I see that the article has been tagged for deletion! I'll make a quick edit which I hope will help but which you might want to edit. ch (talk) 04:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The deletion tag was placed on just after I created the account and quickly removed after the creation of the first paragraph. Thanks for your edits.smjwalsh (talk) 06:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for creating the Ament page -- I didn't realize the history of the "delete" and am much relieved. My suggestion was NOT to delete the Twain material, but to create a new page where it would be more prominent. Obviously we would leave a brief version on the Ament page, with a link (one of the criteria for the importance of an article is the number of links).

BTW, I agree with an earlier comment that the length of Wikipedia articles should summarize knowledge for the reader, not present too much for the reader to take in. I've sometimes had to rein in my own enthusiasm as well. But the Ament article is in danger of turning into a documentary history, not a summary. So my impression is that the Ament article should be boiled down, replacing the blocks of direct quotations with a few choice quotes.

I agree with your opinion. My method seems to be to gather excess information, and then start the boiling down process (or allow others that privilege :)) I sometimes leave certain block quotes from hard to find primary sources.smjwalsh (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you could put the time into new articles? For instance, I can't find an article on the "Oberlin Band," which to my mind is a more important topic.

I have other research interests that I should be pursuing, so I do not imagine I will put much more effort into this article for a little while. Another one of my methods is to let the article settle for a while, and allow me sufficient perspective to rigorously pare it down. I agree the Oberlin Band would be worth researching.smjwalsh (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies if I seem too forward. ch (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer direct communication, especially as it is both constructive and helpful.smjwalsh (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I hope my comments are constructive and helpful, and appreciative too! ch (talk) 19:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Smjwalsh,

You might be interested in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Christianity in China work group. Just a friendly invite so that more folks could get involved. Thanks.Brian0324 (talk) 21:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the invitation. I have joined - I think. smjwalsh (talk) 22:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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I think you should see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket#Cricket invented in Belgium? and take a few steps back with regard to this new "theory". It is evident from reading the cricket history articles that the Flemish involvement in early cricket had already been acknowledged. I would also refer you to this site where you will see that the author has acknowledged the "find" but has put it into its proper perspective. As he says, the jury is still out.

Thank you for your comments. I just read the relevant discussion. Of course, it was not written when I made my contribution. While the new insertion I made was no doubt too long in relation to the rest of the section, it was certainly NPOV and presents it as a theory (not definitive).(smjwalsh (talk) 23:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Your edits have unbalanced the history section of Cricket and, as one contributor to the project's talk page says, there is now more about this latest fad than about the whole of the 19th century or the whole of the 20th century.

I see where you are comiing from.(smjwalsh (talk) 23:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I am also bemused by your reversion of my edit to History of cricket to 1725. You had duplicated and even triplicated the information about Herr Gilmeister and adversely affected the readability of the article. I realise you have since made further amendments but your reversion seems to me to be a breach of WP:AGF. I think you have overstated this newspaper story and I would suggest that the proper way to treat it is in 1301 to 1700 in sports. --Orrelly Man (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was surprised at the wholesale deletion of a section that not only included the duplication and triplication of Gilmeister, but other information that was not redundant. Easiest way was to revert and then effect the substantial changes you indicated. No disrespect was intended. You will see that revert was immediately followed by my edits to closely approximate your intention.

I'm not sure that I over-stated anything, I merely included what was reported and let Gilmeister and Eddowes speak for themselves. Perhaps they are over-stating the case, which is why it was categorised as a theory. (smjwalsh (talk) 23:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC))[reply]

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Hey, I noticed this. Seems we reverted different bits at the same time. :-) With regards to your edit summary, I'd agree but also say that it simply wasn't necessary to remove the infobox parameter, especially without explanation. It's not as if the article is overly long. Cheers! --King of the Arverni (talk) 03:39, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to fix previous edits that left info box scrambled. I was not aware that I removed the info box parameter.(smjwalsh (talk) 03:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC))[reply]

You didn't; you re-added it (from what I saw), as you should have. I was commending you. Well done. (-: --King of the Arverni (talk) 04:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. My guess is previous editor left some unintended consequences.(smjwalsh (talk) 04:46, 23 July 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Yes, I'm not sure why they felt such a need to delete the parameter in the first place, which is why I re-added it. Thanks again! --King of the Arverni (talk) 15:26, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On August 15, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article William Howard Hoople, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 20:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You inserted the bit about The Daily Show in the Carlson article so I figured you might like to join the debate now:

Talk:Gretchen_Carlson#Jon_Stewart_comments_of_December_8.2C_2009

--Louiedog (talk) 02:44, 10 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I formatted the two references you added to Alma White to correct the error added by User:Cathar11. In this format I need the direct quote from the long article on Godbey. I will look for it and add it when I find it, but if you find it first, please add it. Other people are against using the quote function, but this is a perfect example. User:Cathar11 claims the article says that Godbey isn't an elder, but doesn't provide a quote from the article. You add the proper quote and the question is settled. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a direct quote, but rather a summary of facts from Hamilton's book, which I accessed through Google Books in snippet form. I am a fan of the quote function. Hamilton's book is quite explicit that Godbey was both an ordained elder, and a presiding elder. Godbey had as much authority to ordain White as Wesley himself who was an ordained presbyter/priest in the Church of England, and yet ordained Coke and Asbury.(smjwalsh (talk) 17:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

OK, I see you removed the quote parameter, I just restored it. I will remove it again and format your comment as a note. See if you can find a quote from one of the articles. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure that is do-able.(smjwalsh (talk) 17:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Are you going to contribute to the Godbey article? It is just a stub now. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

At some point in time. I have ordered Hamilton's book, so will await its arrival.(smjwalsh (talk) 17:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC))[reply]

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Lots of neat stuff -- but far too long for just one article. Might you consider either breaking out smaller articles and wikilinking to them, or pruning some of the minutiae which are interesting enough, but not essential for the reader to know? Thanks! Collect (talk) 12:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback. I have been thinking of doing just what you are suggesting. Probably divide it into the Main Article, History of the Astor House, and then articles on Guests and Residents. As it stands, more than 50% is reference support. I need to remove duplications in the footnotes, abbreviate some of the references. I'm getting close to finishing and will start pruning and dividing after that.(smjwalsh (talk) 12:16, 2 February 2010 (UTC))[reply]

I would actually prefer you do the dividing - I tend to cut a bit -- and I would like to honor your understanding of what is, and is not, important. This is not really an article where folks will pick apart the references, to be sure. In order to keep all the history intact bewteen the new articles, you might ask an admin to make copies of the page with the new names - then edit each of them down, and wikilink the new names to the article you keep with this name? Perhaops a short overview of its history and history since 1954 ("modern history"?), a broken-out "history to 1954" linked, "Notable Guests" (losing the "unconfirmed" ones as not really adding a lot to the article?) and pruning the references a bit would work? Thanks! Collect (talk) 12:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I intend to do the dividing (creating new articles) as I have done previously with other long articles I have worked on. I have had communication from a WP lurker regarding some of my edits. He has thoroughly critiqued some edits. His concerns have been reasonable. Apparently he is working on a scholarly book on The Bund. Over-referencing may be a reaction to those enquiries. However, I am looking to reduce both the number, as well as their content through use of abbreviations and short reference cites. As I see it, the Main article would include all of the sections, but in summary form where there is a separate article. I am doing that with biography articles spun off from this article. As the biography article is created and fleshed out, the content in the main article is reduced commensurately. Unconfirmed guests is an attempt to respond to claims by the PR department of the hotel, and the multiplication of those claims in various media eg Lonely Planet, Frommers, newspaper articles etc. It has been interesting to me my own edits show up in other publications almost word for word.(smjwalsh (talk) 12:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Too heck with PR departments <g>. Let's whip this too long article into shape, right? Collect (talk) 12:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As of last night (my time), article was just over 250K in length or just over 37,000 words (translates to 59 pages using PDF download facility), of which there was 20,000 words of content and 17,000 words of reference material. I have started dividing process. Created 2 history articles (1844-1858) and (1858-1959), and will create another (1959 onwards). Will probably need to divide 1858-1959 article into 3: (1858-1900), (1900-1922) and (1922-1959), as these represent ownership changes. I have created List of residents and guests article, and removed same from main article (reducing size by 20% of total). I believe the references can be reduced significantly and will work on them. There are more challenges and work involved than I initially expected so I would appreciate time to divide and shift material. However, I believe it would be OK to start reducing History section of main article until Pujiang Hotel/1959 and onwards section.(smjwalsh (talk) 23:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Hi. I'm curious why this article isn't title Astor House Hotel (Shanghai)? And I think the Astor House Hotel article should be disambiguated? ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:28, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Yesterday I put this very topic on the talk page. When I first encountered the WP article last year, it was named as it is currently. I will wait for a few more days and if there is no objection, will rename the article Astor House Hotel (Shanghai).(smjwalsh (talk) 03:03, 4 February 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Hi Smjwalsh -- I notice you uploaded this picture a couple of months ago and give the source only as a newspaper article. Could you please provide a few more details such as (at the very least) which newspaper, date, and page number? Other details such as the name of the article and author(if known) of the article would be helpful too but are less important. As things stand, there isn't enough information there to verify the copyright status of the image. Cheers --Rlandmann (talk) 10:55, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Smjwalsh. While I've no problem with the changes you've recently made, the failed angle is subject of discussion. Currently there seems to be quite a lot of interest(!) in "Failed Angel". There's also some opinion differences in the current editors of the Larry Norman article. May I respectfully ask that you consider contributing to the discussion before making changes. Thanks Matthewdjb (talk) 08:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of the discussion and am following it closely. As there was nothing remotely controversial in my changes, I acted BOLDLY and made the necessary changes.(smjwalsh (talk) 14:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

I need to go to bed. Could you please stop editing the Stonehill section. I just lost nearly an hour of editing to two conflicts. I need to fix some issues with that section. Thanks. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your request but this is a most unusual request. I'm sorry you lost your changes. I know how frustrating that can be. I have a few more changes to make before I take a break. As I am in Australia, and there are many hours time difference, I think it best for me to do what I planned, allow you to sleep, and you can edit as you see fit once I have a more settled version for you.

(smjwalsh (talk) 06:48, 30 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks. I'm done now. Fortunately I have some tools that allow me to merge changes together, albeit external to Wikipedia. I needed to clarify the differing points of view around the end of Randy's first marriage. Larry and his biographer seem to be at odds with the first-hand accounts in Fallen Angel. I really appreciate how you're fleshing-out the rest of the section. You're a very good and dedicated editor. Feel free to add whatever information you can to other Jesus music artists. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:09, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For your tireless improvement through the addition of sources and other material to the Larry Norman article. Please keep up the good work! Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:09, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed you recently edited Little Anthony and the Imperials‎, changing "Little Anthony and the Imperials are a rhythm and blues/soul/doo-wop vocal group..." to "Little Anthony and the Imperials is a rhythm and blues/soul/doo-wop vocal group...", with the edit summary "Rules of English grammar require collective noun to have singular form of verb, therefore 'Is' not 'are')". I agree with you for American English, but British English (and most other variants of English) use the plural form of the verb with a collective noun. So you will see that all non-U.S. band articles use are. However, you will see that most Wikipedia references to U.S. bands also use are (and other plural forms such as were and they). If you look at the edit histories of these articles, you may see multiple revisions changing back and forth between singular and plural forms. So I think you are fighting a losing battle; don't be surprised if someone eventually reverts the edit and similar edits to other articles you may have made. --hulmem (talk) 15:52, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to say something like that. The whole BrE/AmE thing is a pain - I dunno why we can't just mix 'em all up... Rothorpe (talk) 15:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. As an Australian, I was educated in the intricacies of British grammar, and so can advise that the rule applies in both Australia and other British English countries. Through voracious reading I am familiar with the American variant:) Grammatically I am correct, but realise that common usage would be "are". It will be interesting toi see how quickly it is reverted.(smjwalsh (talk) 16:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Further to the above, the WP article: [1] is interesting, but not sourced.(smjwalsh (talk) 16:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

WP indicates that an article on a topic (eg biography) related to a particular nation should use the grammar and spelling of that nation. "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation uses the English of that nation." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS:HEAD#National_varieties_of_English(smjwalsh (talk) 16:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

I know. Isn't it a frightful bore? Rothorpe (talk) 16:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Consequently, an article on an American band or singing group eg Little Anthony and the Imperials should conform to American English grammar conventions.(smjwalsh (talk) 16:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

I agree, and I've tried that (Beach Boys, etc.) but someone invariably reverts the edit back to the plural form. It just isn't important so I quickly gave up. I guess I was trying to alert you that you have an uphill battle. I think the root of the issue is that to many people, one way "sounds" right and the other way "sounds" wrong. Based on an informal look at a number of articles, the empirical consensus seems to be to use the plural form, right or wrong. --hulmem (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with both your sentiment and prognosis.(smjwalsh (talk) 17:00, 23 April 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Astor House Hotel 1927.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:17, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SMJ - On Talk:Larry Norman you have recently added

"There seems to be a way to consolidate references also, which would reduce article length considerably"

I'm not sure if you are saying you don't know how to do this? If not, then instead of starting the reference with just <ref> start with <ref name="XXX"> where XXX is a short memorable title, and complete the reference as usual. When you want to re-use the same reference just use <ref name="XXX"/> If you knew this - sorry for trying to teach you to suck eggs. Arjayay (talk) 14:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I was not familiar with the process only with the product.(smjwalsh (talk) 15:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Related to this edit, where's the new article? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:42, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just found it. Perhaps a brief paragraph or two in the LN article with a main tag is appropriate. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just about to direct you to the new page. Will add the appropriate tag ASAP. As we are both fans of Randy Stonehill, perhaps we can work together to ensure the new article is fair and even-handed.(smjwalsh (talk) 00:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

I'm interested in assisting in creating new articles to help weed this page down. I don't have any stake in it, just saw somewhere I might be useful in growing my wiki-editing skills. So if you have suggestions of pages that can be culled out, let me know. I'll spend some time with the article later today and see if I can come up with something on my own.Tuxhedoh (talk) 18:25, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your kind offer. I plan to do it probably next week. From my experience premature separation ends up creating extra work - double handling some data. One area that I will need to shift is the People! section, but as there is already an existing People! WP article, It will require time and skill to integrate it. Can I get back to you if I need help?(smjwalsh (talk) 22:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Get back to me... that's fine.Tuxhedoh (talk) 22:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I edited your addition to the Petra (band) article and the "owner" of the article decided to remove it completely. Feel free to restore your version or my edit. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the "heads up".(smjwalsh (talk) 00:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

I did not place them there as a joke nor to be humorous. They were placed there because the article needs improving. Removing tags like this are viewed as vandalism. Please improve the article and request that the templates be removed. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please see article talk page.(smjwalsh (talk) 23:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 17:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please allow me to introduce you to the Show preview button. I'm concerned that your multiple minor edits will cause the Christian rock‎ article to load slowly as has happened with Larry Norman. I would appreciate if you would take the time to make your changes all-at-once rather than one-at-a-time, particularly when they're all to the same section. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Since this record company fails WP:CORP in that it has no coverage of it's own (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL), has only one artist Larry Norman (as far as I can see), and the Larry Norman artical has a section on it I don't see the issue. Codf1977 (talk) 15:01, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand how you arrived at your conclusion after momentarily dropping in on this article. There is an extended discussion on the Larry Norman talk pages relating to that article's length and the consensus that sub-articles be created. Consequently the Phydeaux Records article was one of the sub-articles created. The Phydeaux material on the Larry Norman article is slated for reduction and summarisation. While Norman was the primary artist on the label, there is an extensive discography to include. See, for example, [2]. As the label is now defunct. a current google search probably won't reveal too much. Additionally, it was probably the first mail order indie label in the Christian Rock /CCM genre.(smjwalsh (talk) 15:09, 2 July 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

Sorry but I don't see that the answer to the problem is to create articles on non-notable companies - if you need to reduce and summarise the section in the main article then do that but unless you can show Phydeaux Records meets WP:CORP then it should be redirected to Larry Norman as per WP:BEFORE. Codf1977 (talk) 15:17, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Further, reviewing WP:CORP, there are various secondary sources that reference Phydeaux. See Randall Herbert Balmer, Encyclopedia of Evangelicalism (Westminster John Knox Press, 2002):411f; John J. Thompson, Raised by Wolves: The Story of Christian Rock & Roll (ECW Press, 2000); W. K. McNeil, Encyclopedia of American Gospel Music (Routledge, 2005); Pat Browne, The Guide to United States Popular Culture (Popular Press, 2001); Barry Alfonso, The Billboard Guide to Contemporary Christian Music (Billboard Books, 2002); Don Cusic, Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music: Pop,Rock, and Worship (ABC-CLIO, 2009)(smjwalsh (talk) 15:23, 2 July 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

I think that is the issue - when you say "secondary sources that reference Phydeaux" - that does not meet WP:CORP - they need to cover Phydeaux, not just "report" on record releases. Codf1977 (talk) 15:42, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The six secondary sources identified above discuss the creation of Phydeaux, its development, and demise, and do not report on record releases at all. I will enhance the notability rationale within the next 24 hours.(smjwalsh (talk) 15:45, 2 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Thats fine, if that that is the case - otherwise it will need to be a re-direct. Codf1977 (talk) 15:53, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Absent that notability rationale - I have re-redirected the article. Codf1977 (talk) 08:01, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have nominated List of songs recorded by Larry Norman, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs recorded by Larry Norman. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the notification. If you can be more specific in identifying the areas where there is too much specificity, I am willing to attempt to address them editorially.(smjwalsh (talk) 15:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Sir, I am impressed with what you did to the Captain Mikey article I started yesterday. By the way, I did start it after seeing your article about Larry Norman (who you know Captain Mikey managed and produced) on AfD yesterday. I had no plan to do this, but sources started popping up to the point that I figured I should make it public. I would have guessed from as far away as you are that you wouldn't have had the interest in an American radio hero, but you found things I never would have known to look for and made the article so much better. Wikipedia would be so much better if there were more editors like you out there to help the cause. I wish I knew how to issue a barnstar, because you deserve it.Trackinfo (talk) 20:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words. It is encouraging to receive positive feedback especially when there are those who do very little but delete, criticise, and then try to have articles you created removed. Captain Mikey has been on my radar for a while from his involvement with People! and Larry Norman, two articles that I have worked on extensively. I'm a firm believer in the idea of Wikipedia and value collaboration and cooperation. As regards barnstars. I think you award them the way one adds userboxes - find one and paste on the recipient's user page.(smjwalsh (talk) 23:56, 6 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]

You are welcome. This morning, I was talking with Lugnuts when I saw the AfD for Silvertone Records on his talk page. I moved up the "See also" section and did few minor edits on it. –pjoef (talk • contribs) 12:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments on the essays. One always wonders if anyone ever reads them. I am pleased you found them useful and trust you will find ways to apply them productively.--Mike Cline (talk) 02:18, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:LN Mic.jpg file is on the chopping block because the person who uploaded the file didn't have the rights to and requested that Charles provide the information. Charles still hasn't provided a release. If you have any way to contact either to prevent this from happening, it would be appreciated. Feel free to see the discussion at File talk:LN Mic.jpg. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading File:Prudence Olive Tracy Wedge 1912.jpg. You don't seem to have said where the image came from or who created it. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.

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Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 00:08, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've made lots of improvements to Fanny Crosby, it seems a bit late to bring this up, but it it possible to share a single citation multiple times rather than repeating it, I did one here. Copying from an older note about another article,

Hi, just a tip that may save someone some work later – when adding multiple references (as in Albert Gonzalez) to the same news article, you can use the "name" parameter in the <ref> of the first use of the citation, thus: <ref name=MH0822>, then later on instead of repeating the same citation over and over, just say <ref name=MH0822 /> (note trailing slash) to cite the same reference. Some of the other cites in the Albert Gonzales article already use this method.

Best, --CliffC (talk)

Rather as suggested in User talk:Smjwalsh#Larry_Norman_References above Arjayay (talk) 15:56, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was going to deal with multiple cites later through use of the AWB process.smjwalsh (talk) 16:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I note your comment above about sorting some things out later. This is creating a lot of work. For the second time in a few days I have had to spend an hour or so fixing errors on the page that caused the article to be listed in the maintenance lists. A few tips:

1. start using edit summaries - actually, not a tip as you can and should be warned for not doing so
2. before you finish a session, check towards the bottom of the page for errors relating to references (they will be in big red bold font). If there are errors then please fix them because you are nearer to the action & will most likely find the problem faster than some random editor who turns up to deal with the issue
3. you may find it easier to use cite templates as these will go a long way towards avoiding the refs errors you keep creating. I've added a few in the further reading section by way of example, and there is a list of them on my user page, together with links to the relevant template articles. For now, I've had to move the reflist below the Further Reading section, which is not how things should be laid out but was the only way to quickly resolve the issue. "Quickly" being a relative term here.

I'm also going to be tagging the article because it is now way too long. I'm not yet sure how to resize it in a manner that enhances rather than works against it but, one way or another, I think that it needs splitting. I'll have a think.

All of the above intended constructively. I do appreciate the massive effort that you have put into this article. - Sitush (talk) 05:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the positive comments and constructive tips/suggestions. I regret any unnecessary time you had to spend on this article due to my work habits. I will:

1. include edit summary - question: are they always necessary?
2. I noticed reference error message sometime ago but could not locate problem after a diligent search. As you can imagine, given the length of the article, it is easy to not see such warnings. I will endeavour to look in the future.
3. I find using cite templates harder and take longer, and only minimally reduce number of citations, as I often quote from many different pages in a book. I understand that some editors prefer that approach, but that current method is acceptable, as are others. While I understand it has the potential to create the cite error you rectified, I think if I am more diligent in checking error messages more frequently, it may obviate the situation. I am aware of perhaps 3-4 such errors on this article previously. If there were more, again sorry for that.
4. Thanks for refering me to your user page for helpful templates.
5. Regarding length. It is long, and can/will be divided later in process as I have with some oither long articles I have created. I find it best to do at the end of the creation process (which is very close to conclusion), as it avoids duplication of work. Tagging article is appropriate. smjwalsh (talk) 07:21, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding length: As I suspected article is at upper limit of recommended length. However, readable prose is 107kB, with the references being approximately 45% of total article size.

1. Prose size (including all HTML code): 210 kB
2. References (including all HTML code): 96 kB
3. Prose size (text only): 107 kB (18235 words) "readable prose size"smjwalsh (talk) 13:30, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I consolidated some citations using Reflinks earlier today. However, one of the reasons why the References section is so large is because they are still not fully consolidated, eg: page 311 of one citation appears several times. Furthermore, I think that you are perhaps being a little too pedantic in your manner of citing. If you make some statements based on the content of page 311, some that are on 311 & 312, & some more that are solely on 312 then it seems pedantic (to me): specify a page range for the entire group, pages=311-312. I think that you can credit the reader with a little sense and patience.

I agree on the need to consolidate references and there seems to be several ways to do it. In my academic research, where one can use ibids and op cits, it takes care of length issues. I too tend to be pedantic on cites since editing on WP. My usual practice would be to consolidate all sources in one footnote at the end of a paragraph, but WP seems to prefer sources individually. Also, I have edited other WP articles where chapter and verse is needed for every single edit.smjwalsh (talk) 00:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Doing this will not only massively reduce the references list, the size of which seems to me to be grotesque, but probably also decrease page load times because the software will not have to parse so many variations. The latter point is a guess, but an educated one based on quite a bit of professional programming experience.

It may be as you say about page load speed. WP seems to prefer more references than less, but I'm sure there can be too much of a good thing:)smjwalsh (talk) 00:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It really is a fantastic piece of scholarship but something has to give because I suspect that most readers will be completely overwhelmed by it. Indeed, a GAN reviewer for one of my articles reckoned that article was on the large & complex size, despite the guidelines you refer to above + it being maybe 33% of the size of Fanny Crosby. The article, not the person!

Thanbks again for the scholarship. While I edit all kinds of articles, and have created many that are quite small, I like to create quality articles for "deserving subjects", especially those slightly off the beaten path. Here's my take. Casual readers will find most of what they need about the subject in the lead. More interested readers, will look at specific sections. Most Christian readers will probably look at her bio details and the hymn section, but there is so much more to this subject unknown to both the hoi polloi (including me). There is a lot of erroneous, incomplete, and inadequate informatiojn scattered throughout the internet. Even the best, most scholarly biography (Blumhofer) misses stuff. I imagine the article will be split into "Hymns of Fanny Crosby", "Poetry of Fanny Crosby", "Popular Songs of Fanny Crosby", another on her career as a rescue worker, etc that will reduce the actual length of the main article. I do have a plan in mind and have done the same in other articles that have been as long as this one.smjwalsh (talk) 00:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for edit summaries, well, we all forget from time to time. As I understand it, the rule is that they should be used always. However, check the link I gave above if you do not fancy being consistent about it. - Sitush (talk) 18:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I re-read the edit summary article. While it does say they should be used always, it also seems to suggest their use primarily in contentious edits, or when one is removing or changing the work of another editor, which I invariably do. As I tend to work away from the public glare until an article jumps into the top 50 of lengthy articles, and very few watch my articles, and because I make anywhere from 600 to 2,000 edits on these mega-articles, I have tended not to bother, and have rarely been called on it in these situations. I cannot recall a time when one of my 16,000+ edits have been mis-identified as vandalism. Thank you for your courtesy in dialoguing and your contributions to WP.smjwalsh (talk) 00:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Before saving your changes to an article, please provide an edit summary, which you forgot to do before saving your recent edit to Fanny Crosby. Doing so helps everyone understand the intention of your edit (and prevents legitimate edits from being mistaken for vandalism). It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. Sitush (talk) 06:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see you just reversed my edit, removing some of the overlinking at Larry Norman. Despite admitting that there was overlinking; you just reversed the lot. WP:Overlink is quite specific - to quote some relevant sections:-

What generally should not be linked

• Avoid linking plain English words.
• Avoid linking the names of major geographic features and locations, religions, languages, and common professions.
• As a rule of thumb, link on first reference only.

Lead section

• Too many links can make the lead hard to read

An example article

• Do not link to the "United States", because that is an article on a very broad topic

Common words like "singer" should not, therefore, be linked

Although the guideline says religions should not be linked, I left "Christian" as it is important to the article, but reduced the number of occurances.

I reduced repeated links to the same article e.g. Christian music, Jesus Movement, Capitol Records, People!

I therefore, politely, request that you undo your reversion, and, if there are one or two items you sincerely feel need multiple links you can insert these, manually, yourself.

Arjayay (talk) 07:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I read your comments with interest and the relevant WP article. I apologise for reversing the lot but could not find a quick and convenient way to reverse some. I should not have done so, but was not aware of the over-linking guideliness and could not see the harm in the 15-20 links you de-linked. I just tried to undo my edit but could not, getting this message: "The edit could not be undone due to conflicting intermediate edits". So if you can, please do so with the assurance it won't be reverted by me. I appreciate your comments and the way you communicated them.smjwalsh (talk) 06:42, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article David Di Sabatino is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Di Sabatino until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Errant ^(chat!) 20:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This edit was well-done! --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:10, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I had something similar when article was first created. I have both editions of DDS's bibliography and have appreciated his writings over the years. I have always tried to be fair to him prefering to discuss his work than the other stuff that people focus on.smjwalsh (talk) 07:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, Early life of Fanny Crosby. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Fanny Crosby. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Fanny Crosby - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. SwisterTwister talk 06:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, Rescue Mission Ministry of Fanny Crosby. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Fanny Crosby. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Fanny Crosby - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Sitush (talk) 00:02, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We ought to bear in mind that there may well be legal issues arising from his estate, which could be influenced by the legalities of his marriage(s) and legitimacy of his children. It may be better to use words like "... claimed" and "... stated", rather than attempting to set out a definitive position based on possibly unreliable sources. Another obvious point is that any references to living children would be covered by WP:BLP, I think, even if the article isn't about them. Just a couple of thoughts to be borne in mind. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. My practice is to only use verifiable sources. It may well be that what the anon isp includes is accurate, but verification is needed. I'm trying to be as fair as I can and as the verifiable sources allow. Some of the main problems she has are with material that is either from SB himself and was published in his lifetime. He acknowledges 4 marriages, and 21 children. The accusations the anon makes may violate BLP.smjwalsh (talk) 17:22, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

At some point it may be useful to get some input at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard - given that, although Burke is deceased, there are clearly references to his living children in the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's your wisdom on this matter? What would cross the line?smjwalsh (talk) 17:53, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	Smjwalsh. Thanks for your superb edits on my first article on Wikipedia. Greferjun (talk) 18:21, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. it was a genuine pleasure. You can improve article by discovering names of his children, mother, middle name, date of ordination, places he pastored.smjwalsh (talk) 13:10, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestion. In fact I know the names of his children. Somebody told me that the information about him being the son of Alfonso A. Pablo is not part of his. It must be a different Pablo. I will double check and will remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greferjun (talk • contribs) 23:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Any suggestions for improving this automated tool are welcome. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 23:57, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sourcing that fact! I'll add it to the song page.
Ulmanor (talk) 18:34, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I was writing an article on Test Data Generation. On writing of the article I had gotten a comment to rewrite the lead of the article. Following this even you made some contributions and I too improved it from my side. However, I haven't heard from anybody since and I would appreciate if you could help me sort out the article so that is in good shape and so that I can make any improvements to the article. Gakiwate (talk) 12:39, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I have no knowledge of this or similar subjects and cannot critique the article's content. If no-one has commented, it may be that they are happy with the changes made already.smjwalsh (talk) 12:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it okay if I take down the Lead Re-write thingy down then? Gakiwate (talk) 17:14, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK by me. Let's see what happens.smjwalsh (talk) 17:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. Gakiwate (talk) 13:58, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for tracking down further information on her birthdate. Because this has been the subject of disputes that have gone on for years, I'd like to fully document all sources. Could you please provide on the article talk page some details of the three ancestry.com references you added? The first appears to be the same one discussed on the talk page, the El Paso county, Texas birth record. What are the other two, and what other information do they provide that we might be able to cross reference? --Ronz (talk) 02:39, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello? --Ronz (talk) 16:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Great job on tracking down all those references! I hope we're close to resolving this, but I'm happy to wait for more feedback from BLPN, and perhaps wait for what her office produces in the way of a new bio. --Ronz (talk) 22:04, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I love a good mystery and have an aversion to people distorting their details for PR purposes.smjwalsh (talk) 00:07, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for all that material you added to the Richard Benjamin Harrison article. It really helped build it up. I do have a few questions and concerns, if you don't mind my asking:

1. I notice you added a few citations of a publication called The Dispatch, which you indicated is based in North Carolina. I assume that that is this publication, right?

2. I notice that some of the citations of The Dispatch end in a colon and number, such as ":5". Is this the page number of the story?

3. The citations of The Dispatch do not indicate the author or title of the story. Is this information not available? May I ask where you got these stories from? I tried going to the Dispatch website, but could not find them.

4. The paragraph that you added to the top of the Career section, (the one that begins "With only $5,000, in April 1981..."), does not have a citation. Can you add the citation to that one? Nightscream (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. Thanks for adding those additional citations to the article. Just one thing, though: Although the cite publication info indicates two different obituaries, I think you accidentally cited Ruth's obituary twice, instead of citing hers and Dorothea's once each. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 03:56, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Orlady (talk) 08:03, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article Floyd Cunningham has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. Mr. Vernon (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That was a huge improvement! Hobit (talk) 04:30, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.smjwalsh (talk) 07:02, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of guests and residents of the Astor House Hotel (Shanghai) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Astor House Hotel (Shanghai) 1922-1959 is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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	The Original Barnstar
	While doing some reading, I stumbled on your Lois Weber article. One of the best I've read in a long time, great work! Wizardman 21:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

John of Reading (talk) 15:52, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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A History from 1940s to Today'' (Hal Leonard Corporation, 2006):132-133.</ref> The Hutton Sisters ([[Marion Hutton]] and [[Betty Hutton]] (Capitol 303), and the [[Bill Darnel]] & [[Betty Clooney]] The most popular and commercially successful version of ''Ko Ko Mo (I Love You So'', was that of [[Perry Como]],<ref>Charlie Gillett, ''The Sound of the City: The Rise

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</ref> The Charms' version, recorded on January 11, 1955 on the De Luxe label,<ref>Marv Goldberg, [[http://www.uncamarvy.com/Charms/charms.html "Otis Williams & The Charms: Based on Interviews with :306.</ref> Their version was withdrawn from sale by the end of February 1955.<ref>Marv Goldberg, [[http://www.uncamarvy.com/Charms/charms.html "Otis Williams & The Charms: Based on Interviews with

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and [[Rita Robbins]], The Hutton Sisters ([[Marion Hutton]] and [[Betty Hutton]]), [The Flamingos]], [[Ronnie Aldrich]] and [[The Squadronaires|The Squads]], [[Tito Rodríguez]], [[Dave Cavanaugh|Big [[Otis Williams and the Charms|The Charms]] ([[De Luxe Records|De Luxe]] 6080).<ref>Marv Goldberg,[[http://www.uncamarvy.com/Charms/charms.html "Otis Williams & The Charms: Based on Interviews with On January 11, 1955,<ref>Marv Goldberg,[[http://www.uncamarvy.com/Charms/charms.html "Otis Williams & The Charms: Based on Interviews with :306.</ref> Their version was withdrawn from sale by the end of February 1955.<ref>Marv Goldberg,[[http://www.uncamarvy.com/Charms/charms.html "Otis Williams & The Charms: Based on Interviews with

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12, 1955):23.</ref> and [[The Dooley Sisters]] ([[Tampa Records|Tampa]] 100) that "broke lose in [[Pittsburgh".<ref>''The Billboard'' (January 15, 1955):38.</ref>

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* Various Artists ''The Rock 'N' Roll Era: Roots of Rock 1945-1956'' (1989: [[Time-Life Music]] SRNR-30/2RNR-30 (Warner Special Products OP-2570OPCD-2570) Gene and

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Relationship of Larry Norman and Randy Stonehill is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Smjwalsh: You're right that it would have been nice to talk before reverting your edit; on the other hand, considering the extent of your edits on the Hound Dog (song) page, it would have been nice to talk about some of those changes before you added them, or before re-reverting. As I noted, the new section you added is functionally redundant with an existing (and already oversized) section in the article, and much of the new content is redundant with that of the preexisting section and/or of dubious significance by Wikipedia standards. I don't have a problem with list per se—indeed, I created that list myself for the Leiber & Stoller website discography page (and I am currently working on a massive update with many additions). For my personal and professional interests, the more the merrier. However, for Wikipedia's purposes, perhaps you would consider sandboxing an updated version of the extant discography section instead of dumping a pile of data into a new section on the live page and then "wikifying" afterward. Pstoller (talk) 05:07, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and the considerate manner in which they were conveyed. As Wikipedians we are encouraged to be BOLD in adding content (as long as it is verifiable), and so did not mean to create any offence by adding the section from the L&S Discography. As indicated, I always intended to pare, wikify, categorise, and consolidate into a more meaningful presentation. The goal will be to reduce the redundancies between the two sections, and eliminate non-notable content. I am comfortable with articles being "in progress", but I suppose others prefer to view the end product rather than view the process. I must confess that I usually work very much in dark corners of WP and rarely get feedback for my edits for some considerable time afterwards. Besides this particular section, are there other edits that you believe required consultation? smjwalsh (talk) 05:24, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just another comment - you know that the lead is supposed to summarise the article content, and not contain citations itself? I think the guidance needs to be interpreted flexibly, but if you're thinking of putting the article through the GA process at any time, it will need to be addressed. I don't envisage doing any major editing of the article myself, unless I happen to come across worthwhile new sources, but I've given the introductory paragraphs a light copy-edit, mainly to give a little greater weight to the Presley version. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:32, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again. I know the lead paragraph(s) establish notability, and summarise the content of the article. Thanks for your suggestions and work you do across the L&S catalogue of articles.smjwalsh (talk) 15:55, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "Thanks again" - the second comment wasn't from me. :)

As for the rest: I appreciate the Wikipedian boldness mandate; it just seems like a lot of addition to what was already an overly-large section. I don't know if Wikipedia has a specific standard for listing covers/remakes in song entries, but it seems to me that, for songs with many versions, such lists should be confined to recordings of historical relevance. Versions that have charted, appeared in hit films, or otherwise had some demonstrable impact should naturally be included. In this specific case, the Thornton and Presley versions (incl. Presley's early TV versions) are clearly essential, and the other pre-Presley versions are also noteworthy (esp. Freddie Bell). On the other hand, the vast majority of the post-Presley versions are not notable of themselves—even if by notable artists. A relative few examples might be selected to demonstrate the range of genres and generations across which the song has been adopted. Otherwise, I think it's enough to note the number of recordings (approaching 600 by my current count).

You didn't "create offense" by copying from the official L&S discography; indeed, that discography exists as a reference point for work such as this, and I'm happy to see someone making use of it. The problem with adding a new section of other versions is simply that there is already a section for that purpose. Beyond that, I don't think most of the data merits inclusion. The L&S list is meant to be comprehensive. In truth, I am grateful for your other discographical entries, as you may have provided some valuable data for the L&S discography. It would benefit me directly if you were to continue. However, I am mindful that the article doesn't exist to serve my needs, and that its discographical section has a different purpose from the official discography.

Beyond the discography, the edits have come at such a pace that it's been difficult for me to parse all the changes. However, at first glance, they seem to have improved the article; and, in any case, the nature of those edits falls well within Wikipedia's mandates as I understand them. I can hardly object to relevant historical info with citations!

In any case, I think further discussion about the appropriate size, scope, and content for the finished discography section belongs on the "Hound Dog" talk page. Perhaps we could copy this discussion there. It may be that most other editors disagree with me; but, either way, they should have the opportunity to weigh in. Pstoller (talk) 20:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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mother fucker'." <ref>"The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time," ''Rolling Stone'' (9 December 2004):82).</ref> The song, a blues lament, was written for a woman to sing in which she berates "her selfish, * Chris Farlowe and the Thunderbirds ''Chris Farlowe & Thunderbirds'' [November 1977: Charly Records CR 300 021) * Various Artists (featuring [[Ral Donner]] with [[Scotty Moore]] and [[D.J. Fontana]] ''1935-1977: "I've Been Away

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• 1960; December 1961, #8: Parkway P-7002) ''Your Twist Party'' (December 1961, #2; Parkway P-7007))

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• * [[Smiley Lewis]] "Play Girl" ([[Dave Bartholomew|D. Bartholomew) (1953: Imperial 45-5234)<ref>[http://www.globaldogproductions.info/
• 1960; December 1961, #8: Parkway P-7002) ''Your Twist Party'' (December 1961, #2; Parkway P-7007))

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* Jack Belveau "I Ain't Nothin' But A Houndog" ''(sic)'' (1959: Fable Records (CA): F-707-45)<ref>{http://www.songpoemmusic.com/labels/fable.htm "Fable"]</ref> * [[Bobby Starr|Bob Starr]] and His All Starr Band (1959: Fable Records (CA): F-712-45)<ref>{http://www.songpoemmusic.com/labels/fable.htm "Fable"]</ref> * Bryan Keith [aka Keith McCormack and The String-A-Longs] (1963: Dot Records 16532))

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Rooksby, ''Lyrics: Writing Better Words for Your Songs'' (Hal Leonard Corporation, 2006); from [[http://rockaeology.com/2012/04/27/before-elvis-big-mama-thornton-hound-dog.aspx "Before Elvis, ' of [[Martin Scorsese]]'s [[PBS]] 2003 film series, ''[[The Blues (film)|The Blues]]''.<ref>[http://www.pbs.org/theblues/aboutfilms/pearce.html "The Road to Memphis"</ref> * [http://www.garagehangover.com/chessmen/ The Chessmen] (including [[Jimmie Vaughan]] (1968) Opened for Jimi Hendrix Experience in [[Dallas, Texas]]

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by [[Chuck Higgins]] and His Mellotones, with a vocal by [[Daddy Cleanhead|"Daddy Cleanhead"]]) on the Combo Records label (Combo 25);<ref name="globaldog" /> and [[Smiley Lewis]]'s "Play Girl", Rooksby, ''Lyrics: Writing Better Words for Your Songs'' (Hal Leonard Corporation, 2006); from [[http://rockaeology.com/2012/04/27/before-elvis-big-mama-thornton-hound-dog.aspx "Before Elvis, ' of [[Martin Scorsese]]'s [[PBS]] 2003 film series, ''[[The Blues (film)|The Blues]]''.<ref>[http://www.pbs.org/theblues/aboutfilms/pearce.html "The Road to Memphis"</ref> * [http://www.garagehangover.com/chessmen/ The Chessmen] (including [[Jimmie Vaughan]] (1968) Opened for Jimi Hendrix Experience in [[Dallas, Texas]] * [http://www.bobriedy.com/biography.html Bob Riedy Blues Band] ''Live From Chicago'' (Recorded: 1978; Released: 2004; Chicago Sound Records CSR 20090 (medley)

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motif - this time with Tiny proclaiming proudly that he ‘ain’t nothing but a country boy’".<ref>{http://www.piccadillyrecords.com/products/BigTinyKennedy-CountryBoyStrangeKindOfFeeling- BigTinyKennedy-CountryBoyStrangeKindOfFeeling-JukeboxJamSeries-79869.html "Big Tiny Kennedy"]</ref> <ref>[http://www.706unionavenue.nl/64258507 "The discredited LP ''Keep On Rocking''] Redita 131"]</ref> On Various Artists ''"706 Blues": A Collection of Rare Memphis Blues'' (Netherlands, 1974:

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Cite error: The named reference autogenerated1932 was invoked but never defined >>> see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Susan_Norris_Fitkin&diff=493342056&oldid=493341644 Please fix it thanks --Frze ^{> talk} 14:10, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Susan_Norris_Fitkin&action=history thanks --Frze ^{> talk} 19:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Horizons-Magazine/nh-fall-2009.pdf], ''New Horizons: resources For Nazarene Clergywomen'' Fall 2009):3.</ref><ref>[http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?id=10007087 "New dates set for http://pbusa.org/search/enewssubject/currentnews/504-newsnewboard "New Board of P&B USA Convenes"] (February 26, 2010; updated May 2, 2012).</ref> //www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Pq0IiX6do ""NTS 2014 Seminarian Offering Video #3 - Rev. Cara Shonamon"].</ref> and a Children's Pastor at New Hope Church of the Nazarene in Kansas City, Missouri.<ref> //kcnewhope.net/newhopeorg/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=47 "Cara Shonamon"].</ref><ref>[http://www.shawneenaz.org/#/calendar "SHONAMON FAREWELL RECEPTION"]: "Sunday, January with Suzanne Burden and Jamie Wright), Kansas City, MO: Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City.<ref>[http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Eve-Identity-Calling-Kingdom/dp/0834132265 "Reclaiming Eve: The

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A17k2b/AccentthemagazineofM/resources/6.htm "Alumna of the Year: Carla (Johnson, '83) Sunberg"], ''Accent magazine'' (Spring 2009):6.</ref><ref>"Missionaries to Russia to Speak at Nazarene on four districts in 6 nations.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and the education council.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and discipleship pastor.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> Horizons-Magazine/nh-fall-2009.pdf], ''New Horizons: resources For Nazarene Clergywomen'' Fall 2009):3.</ref><ref>[http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?id=10007087 "New dates set for http://pbusa.org/search/enewssubject/currentnews/504-newsnewboard "New Board of P&B USA Convenes"] (February 26, 2010; updated May 2, 2012).</ref> //www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Pq0IiX6do ""NTS 2014 Seminarian Offering Video #3 - Rev. Cara Shonamon"].</ref> and a Children's Pastor at New Hope Church of the Nazarene in Kansas City, Missouri.<ref> //kcnewhope.net/newhopeorg/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=47 "Cara Shonamon"].</ref><ref>[http://www.shawneenaz.org/#/calendar "SHONAMON FAREWELL RECEPTION"]: "Sunday, January with Suzanne Burden and Jamie Wright). Kansas City, MO: Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City.<ref>[http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Eve-Identity-Calling-Kingdom/dp/0834132265 "Reclaiming Eve: The

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A17k2b/AccentthemagazineofM/resources/6.htm "Alumna of the Year: Carla (Johnson, '83) Sunberg"], ''Accent magazine'' (Spring 2009):6.</ref><ref>"Missionaries to Russia to Speak at Nazarene Church of the Nazarene.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> in the Austin area until 1992.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> on four districts in 6 nations.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and the education council.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and discipleship pastor.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> Horizons-Magazine/nh-fall-2009.pdf], ''New Horizons: resources For Nazarene Clergywomen'' Fall 2009):3.</ref><ref>[http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?id=10007087 "New dates set for http://pbusa.org/search/enewssubject/currentnews/504-newsnewboard "New Board of P&B USA Convenes"] (February 26, 2010; updated May 2, 2012).</ref> //www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Pq0IiX6do ""NTS 2014 Seminarian Offering Video #3 - Rev. Cara Shonamon"].</ref> and a Children's Pastor at New Hope Church of the Nazarene in Kansas City, Missouri.<ref> //kcnewhope.net/newhopeorg/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=47 "Cara Shonamon"].</ref><ref>[http://www.shawneenaz.org/#/calendar "SHONAMON FAREWELL RECEPTION"]: "Sunday, January with Suzanne Burden and Jamie Wright). Kansas City, MO: Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City.<ref>[http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Eve-Identity-Calling-Kingdom/dp/0834132265 "Reclaiming Eve: The

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A17k2b/AccentthemagazineofM/resources/6.htm "Alumna of the Year: Carla (Johnson, '83) Sunberg"], ''Accent magazine'' (Spring 2009):6.</ref><ref>"Missionaries to Russia to Speak at Nazarene Church of the Nazarene.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> in the Austin area until 1992.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> While on four districts in 6 nations.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and the education council.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> and discipleship pastor.<ref>www.chelseanazarene.com "Sunbergs to leave Russia for Indiana"], ''NCN News Global Weekly Summary'' 0504 (January 28, 2005), Accessed January 7, 2014.</ref> Horizons-Magazine/nh-fall-2009.pdf], ''New Horizons: resources For Nazarene Clergywomen'' Fall 2009):3.</ref><ref>[http://www.ncnnews.com/nphweb/html/ncn/article.jsp?id=10007087 "New dates set for http://pbusa.org/search/enewssubject/currentnews/504-newsnewboard "New Board of P&B USA Convenes"] (February 26, 2010; updated May 2, 2012).</ref> and challenged students to embrace their call to deeper intimacy and union with Christ.<ref>[http://www1.enc.edu/podcast-display.aspx?id=13521 [Chapel Podcasts 2013 Spring Semester].</ref>

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Since you previously discussed an issue related to the Larry Norman article, I thought that you might be interested in a discussion about sources that is currently happening at Talk:Larry Norman#Malicious Edit Removal/Fallen Angel film recantations. Thanks for your time. There's no requirement for you to participate or respond. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:30, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I used that previous comment on several other user talk pages so as to be fair and equal, but I feel the need to respond further and more personally to you. This is not an attempt to sway your opinion but rather a courtesy to a fellow editor.

Thanks for all the work you did on the Larry Norman articles. I realize that they were all made a long, long time ago. I also realize that I objected to some (much?) of the material. That doesn't mean that I didn't appreciate your edits. I was rather surprised when you didn't show up at the article when they were discussing pruning it. I was even more surprised by your absence after it was finished. I believe that you have extensive knowledge of the subject and, more than any of the other solicited requests, would appreciate your input. I ask that fully understanding your "bias", if it can be called that, in matters related to the subject.

Quite separately, I hope that you have been doing well. Thank you again for your dedication to Wikipedia and the subject of Larry Norman. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:37, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Diannaa (talk) I am at complete loss as to exactly what constituted an alleged violation of copyright, and why you removed edits that have nothing to do with the website you cite as having its rights offended: http://campber.people.clemson.edu/chess2.html. As an experienced WP editor, any edit I made using material from other sources would have been attributed. Further, the way you reverted the edits, makes it impossible for me to see exactly what was removed, and how I can include this material in a way that conforms with your interpretation of copyright violation. Can you re-post the deleted material here (or somewhere else) so we can discuss this matter to our mutual satisfaction? smjwalsh ~

Replied at my talk page. — Diannaa (talk) 14:17, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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