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about every skater I know listens to punk, and not one of us calls oursleves a "skate punK". in fact, I'd never heard of the term till this page. baggy jeans are soo 1991 either way. thin shoes? naah, spaceman boots are better. checkered shoes dont work because they rip after a day, hence noone skates them. but whatever, I dont care. just my 2 cents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.183.34 (talk) 11:28, 4 July 2008 (UTC) The term skate punk has been around sounds the 80s when it was all about skate or die! I actuly think this whole article about punk fashion is pretty stupited punk is not a fashion its a state of mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.97.167 (talk) 04:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

can we get an image/illustration? --Smooth Henry 20:18, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

There are a lot of different types of punks so there is not an image for all. That would be stereotyping in a way. I will try and get pictures of all different types of punks listed. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:59, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good. Johnny Rotten would be a good candidate for a picture to be put into the 70s punk section. For 80s hardcore "anti-fashion" I'd pick either Henry Rollins or Ian McKaye.

meh a visual representation would be nice though... It would give a nice example of what (yes the stereotypical) punker would look like. If it is correct, then it is not really a stereotype. And plus, nobody really would think of it like that... i think it would actually be expected on a "punk fashion" page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.78.168 (talk) 05:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i've heard red laces are considered national front? - I've heard the opposite...that red laces are considered communist...

Removed the phrase "The most blistering punk music" from the Punks against punk fashion section in favor for "Hardcore Punk," which is actually the genre those bands fall into.

I've heard that laces help keeping your shoes on your feet. // Liftarn (talk)

Cherry coloured Dr. Martens were popular among skinheads...31.220.203.190 (talk) 20:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stop changing the "pop punk" section, please - Chucks, ties with t-shirts and as belts, black-and-bright-colours hair dye and the others listed are all aspects of modern pop-punk fashion. If you have a problem with the section, post it here; otherwise I will seek semi-protection. Also, I think images are certainly needed. I know images of Sid Vicious are hard to get (a pity since his exemplary expression of the "punk look" was the only reason he even got in the band), but I think Johnny Rotten would do well. Ramones for torn clothing and leather jackets and Siouxie for swastika and bondage gear would probably be good images too. Ian McKaye would do well for hardcore anti-fashion. There must be an image of someone in a spike-and-patches kutte, torn jeans, mohawk and Crass shirt somewhere we can use. Seriously. And a picture of a NOFX fan or something would do for skate punk. --Switch 14:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jaymz Allyn: Hey, heres a great Idea, Stop trying to drop us all into a category. It's articles like this that make all the little posers out there think that they can be a punk if they listen to everything that they read. Look, straight forward here, Punk is a culture,,,not a Fasion. You can't drop everything into a category. I am not a fan of pop-punk or Emo, but I tend to ocasionally wear a tie or my Chuck Taylors. I do skateboard almost relegiously, but I don't wear dreadlocks or brand logos. Personally, this article offends me; Whatever happened to individuality?

If you think punk isn't about fashion, you're a self-righteous dick. also, the article specifically states that most punks don't follow only one dress code, and mix it up. Read before you get pissy about something. --Switch 10:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I saw your links to GoodCharlotte. I think your whole article is crap. Why don't you add a section for me while your at it? Define this. *moons the self-righteous Bitch"

Punk'77 era can give some idea about outfits. From the other side, I ain't consider metro punk a style, though.

As the Infa Riot lyrics says : "All you boys in jeans and boots, spiky hair from the 70s roots" I still remember of those Jetta boots and slim cut jeans a'la 70s, 80s punk rock. By the way, it comes back to fashion in the USA. I see it on the streets some days. It also worth to take a look on Iggy's slim cut pants. About my clothes, I often sport a bandana on my skull or tied around my neck. I have a Charged GBH style mohawk and spike it good for the shows. Also I wear two jeans at a time with some safety pins attached to it. This double setup gives a good protection when I do the pogo dance and slide or fell.

obviously individuality is a huge part of punk, but honestly most people are individual just like every other punker... If that is what you are basing this on then this article should be deleted and just have one sentence saying "punk fashion is individuality, nuff said." -a sound mind —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.78.168 (talk) 05:26, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 An old picture from the Blank'77 show, venue Albany, NY2oo5. TORN black&blue jeans, Pistols T-shirt, sport kicks and that time no mohawk yet.

Winter 18:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC) [[1]] [[2]][reply]

Stop changing the article. Those shirts were sold at Sex to the early apolitical punk scene, and were meant merely to be offensive, much like the swastika shirts made famous by Sid Vicious that were also sold there. Regardless of Lydon's political beliefs, the shirt is a prime example of the deliberately offensive garments popular at the time. --Switch 07:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Under Skate Punks, the section that says: "Skate punks also generally wear branded skate shoes—such as Fallen shoes, Circa, or eS footwear—and generally avoid the cheap brands—such as Airwalk or Vans—which are seen as poser brands and are not very effective for real skaters" seems POV to me. It could at least have a source. --Zagsa 01:26, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. A poser cant really be defined by the shoes he wears... A poser is someone who tries to hard to.. fit in. Fallen are good shoes anyways. Go ahead and tell Jamie Thomas that he's a poser for wearing Fallen. -__- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.78.168 (talk) 05:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it every sentence in this paragraph starts with the word punk(s)? Seems like it goes against basic writing

Punks seek to outrage propriety with the highly theatrical use of style. Punk clothing adapts existing objects for aesthetic effect: previously ripped clothes are held together by safety pins or wrapped with tape, written on with marker or defaced with paint; a black bin liner bag (garbage bag) might become a dress, shirt or skirt. Leather, rubber and vinyl clothing are also common, possibly due to its implied connection with transgressive sexual practices, such as bondage and S&M. Punks wear tight "drain pipe" jeans, "brothel creepers" shoes, t-shirts with risqué images, and possibly a leather motorcycle jacket (á la The Ramones). Punks style their hair to stand in spikes, cut it into "Mohawks" or other dramatic shapes, and color it with vibrant, unnatural hues. Punks use safety pins and razor blades as jewelry, including using safety pins for piercings. Punks sometimes flaunted taboo symbols such as the Nazi swastika or Iron Cross, although most modern punks are staunchly anti-racist and subsequently may wear a crossed-out swastika patch. They may also wear eyeliner (boys and girls). [citation needed] Punk style was influenced by clothes sold in Malcolm McLaren's shop SEX. McLaren has credited this style to his first impressions of Richard Hell while he was in New York managing the The New York Dolls.

Seems like some one took some bullet points, stuck them together and called it a paragraph. Perhaps some one could reword it? --66.222.240.194 21:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Jay[reply]

I accidentally marked this edit as minor because I forgot that I changed the section title to "traditional punk". So I did more than just copyedit. Sorry. I did that because it seems less confusing than "'straight' punk", which could be confused with straight (as in the sexual orientation) or straight edge. Ungovernable Force^{The Wiki Kitchen!} 06:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have recently started a page on the current hardcore (heavy metal) scene. The hardcore fashion described here would be better suited to describing that scene. till somebody comes up with a paragraph to describe contemporary hardcore PUNK fashion i'll be removing the hc section as it has no bearing on punk fashion.

Oh, I guess you did give a reason. Next time, be sure to direct people here in your edit summary. I don't think modern hardcore is really punk, but others do so for now at least, I think it should stay in. I don't care that much though. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 04:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Just because you started another article doesn't mean you should delete the section from this article. Today's hardcore, definitely originally came out of hardcore punk, so it's relevant in this article. Besides, I've never heard anyone call Hardcore a form of heavy metal, despite the fact that many of today's hardcore bands have metal influences. The hardcore (heavy metal) has no references, and is full of point of view. It need a lot of work (and a name change) to bring it up to encyclopedic standards.Spylab 13:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab[reply]

_____Just wondering about the inclusion of "Emo", as many punks try to distance themselves from this__________________________________________________________________

You know what i think Emo is the conclusion of a way you pend you life, because you are completely worhtless when you have a very great life and many people who care about you.

EMOS CANT SPELL!!!

EMOS HATE CHAVS!!!

IM NOT EMO!!!

YOU PROBABLY WANT TO BE!!!

There's a huge amount of other languages' versions of this article, but none are listed here. May someone add them? (eg, by taking the links from the de.wikipedia). --Pfc432 00:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know it is considered to be an "obscure trend", but there should be a expanded section or at least new article about Suicidals. This is about all the information I could find and it doesn't even refer to them as being Suicidals:

"Another example would be some punks in California, who have moddeled themselves on Cholo's. This look involves wearing brightly coloured bandanas and plaid flannel shirts. Shaven heads are also common in this style. A good example of this would be Californian punk band Suicidal Tendencies."

I know this pretty much covers it in describing their fashion choice, but there should be more information on the subculture. I know Suicidals as a violent crew (some have described it as a gang) that has a fierce devotion to bands like Suicidal Tendencies, Beowulf, Excel, and many other Venice, California bands. I have heard they have associations with various Surrenos gangs. I would edit it myself, but most of what I can provide would fall under "original research" as there aren't any widely available sources on the internet or in books. There was a paragraph in "American Hardcore", but that's about it. I know it may not be relevant to this article in particular, but I feel that the movement was and is still relevant enough to have some more information or an article on Wikipedia. Maybe this would fit better in the punk subculture article, but maybe not. There has to be something on this site about "punk gangs" like the Venice Suicidals, Beowulf Boys and Circle One. Can I get some thoughts?

ZAchAtTacK 4:57, 17 May 2007

I agree with all that you have said. It would be much appreciaated if you could help expand this part of the article. I think part of the reason it is hard to find info on this is precisly because it is an "Obscure Trend" - D-Raven 66.15.146.252 04:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

fdkjhdjkZAchAtTacK 05:02, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article is incredibly inaccurate, and I can see why. The vast majority of wikipedia editors are obssesive computer users who know absolutely nothing about punk other than what they see at Hot Topic, on Fox News, or in books from Barnes and Noble. For one thing, the all-black style of political punks(myself, for instance) was ignored until I added it. Non punks need to stop acting like they know anything about punk.

And, by the way: It's not dead, so don't write these articles like an autopsy.

Skrayl (talk) 04:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• The so-called "political punk" style was ignored because there is no specific group called "political punks", so there is no particular style associated with being a political punk. If you mean anarcho-punk, then there is already a section about that.Spylab (talk) 15:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• See Anti-Flag. Someone needs to make an article about political punk. Or maybe just ignore it. I'm reverting your edit. Also almost everything in this article has been outdated since 2001, I'd say. A large amount of punk was destroyed, and then reconstrucuted in a different way around 1999-2003.

• See punk ideologies (and Wikipedia:Citing sources while you're at it). There are many types of punks that are political. There is no specific category called "political punk", and there is no specific style associated with that nonexistant category. I have reverted your uncited and factually inaccurate edit. Spylab (talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Spylab, are you a punk? I would like to indicate wikipedia: Ignore all rules, in order to point out that with things like punk it's best to trust instinct rather than soruces, as those sources will be societies inaccurate opinions about punk. For example, nowhere in any article about punk are it's many internal conflicts mentioned. Why? There so obvious to anyone who is a punk. There not mentioned becuase of silly citation issues. Skrayl (talk) 02:45, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia: Ignore all rules states: "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." They key point is "improving or maintaining", which is not done by adding uncited and factually inaccurate content. Spylab (talk) 18:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there mate. I was a punk as a teenager (just a few years ago) and I still associate with plenty of punks. Just to let you know, yeah, there are punks around here; you might want to drop Murderbike (talk · contribs) or The Ungovernable Force (talk · contribs) a line. I think they're more involved in the punk subculture than I am.

To address some of your specific concerns: Yes, the article is pretty bad. The section on early punk fashion is okay, but the rest is pretty terrible.

There is no "political punk" style of dress. There is not even any "political punk" group. Let me clarify: Does "political punk" include Nazi punks? Leftists but not anarchists? Does it include Green Day? Do they dress like the Angelic Upstarts? The Clash? The Jam? NOFX? All political punk bands, but all jarringly different in terms of sound, dress and ideology. What is a specific group with a specific dress style is anarcho-punk, simple, aggressive and often experimental punk rock with an anarchist worldview, the fashion mainly being androgynous black militaristic clothing. In dealing with Anti-Flag you might better focus on the "new punk" phenomenon, the bastard child of Bad Religion and Refused.

The stuff about "those sources [being] societies inaccurate opinions about punk" are either your delusions or misunderstanding of the NOR policy. There are plenty of books written about punks, and even by punks, that you can get your hands on if you want to improve the article. Reliable doesn't mean mainstream (and nor does mainstream mean reliable), especially where counterculture is concerned. There are lots of books, for example, that compile articles from zines into histories of bands or scenes; some of these are even available from major retailers. There are books written by punks all over the place. Some photographers have even released books of photos of punks, as a case study in dress, with discussion. What could be better? Admittedly the majority of these focus on the '70s, but there are recent ones too - there's at least one on Umeå hardcore photos. There are sources you can cite.

If you don't like the article - fix it! Borrow some books on punk subculture or on subculture fashion from a local library. Go through old zines. Look up internet articles. If you can afford it, you could even buy some of the specialist books. Anyone can edit, and anyone can contribute to a future of free culture and knowledge. "Anyone" means you. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 06:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

in what is currently considered punk and emo fashion,a key element has been forgotten in this aritcle.tux,tux undershirts,and tie have been a critical part of both punk and emo since their inception.cant beleieve so many people missed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.233.155.182 (talk) 00:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...No, actually it hasn't been. I doubt you could find one photo of a punk wearing a tux. And this is an article about punks, if it's so important to emos, put it on that page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.17.158 (talk) 17:51, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The original punk fashion was prior to the London look. The New York scene of lower Manhattan was the original punk fashion with groups like Television, Blondie, The Ramones, Patti Smith and Talking Heads.

The kids of New York at the time had little money and mod clothing was easy to get hold of so much of the clothing was adapted from the mod image with people trying to be original with what they had.

McLaren recreated what he saw in New York but mostly drawing from and expanding on Richard Hell's look and ignoring the many other kids.

Quote " No one had any money so image was about creating a personal style with what they got. They would wear ripped up shirts, denim jeans, traditional leather and some mod clothing as this was easy to get in New York.''

Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood did NOT copy tearing t-shirts off of Richard Hell or John Lydon. When the shop was Let it Rock they would print tees with early Rock and Roll (Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis) and 60's Garage Bands (Screaming Lord Sutch), and travel to revival concerts, set up a booth, and sell the Let it Rock shirts in the Parking Lot. This led to them having a huge surplus of the band shirts, so when the shop became Too Fast to Live... they begin to rip and tear the tees, put in zips, soil them with hair dye, put motorcycle badges and patches, and plastic pockets with pictures of Glamour Models in them so the shirts would go with their new Rocker look like the Venus and ROCK Bones shirt. They even converted tees into panties. John Lydon admits he didn't come to the shop until it was SEX, and Richard Hell wasn't performing in 1971 when Malcolm first went to New York, so he couldn't have seen it then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.203.248 (talk) 22:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the original Punk fashion was the band Television fronted by Richard Hell. Now, I am not a fan of the NY Punk scene. In fact, I don't really consider it Punk. Punk was really born in England, which "borrowed" things from the NY scene. The fashion began with Television. They were important because, all the members had short hair, which at the time (1974 or 1975) was unheard of, with a sort of the look of outcasts. This is where the fashion really is rooted from; the Ramones didn't really influence the fashion, only the music side. So, this article needs to emphasize this point. And how Maclaren was the man who brought this underground to England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.214.47 (talk) 23:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I gotta pose the question of how the NY scene is not punk. Sure, this is a poster's opinion (though questionably coinciding with them "not liking" the bands), but I've never happened to hear any good arguments for excluding the NY/CBgB's era as a proper punk stage. Taking into account that the Ramones were playing "Judy is a Punk" circa 1974, "Punk Magazine" was starting up circa late '75, the very term 'punk' was being cited in U.S. music magazines for two years prior to that, and Iggy was already Iggy for a few years, I don't see much validity in claiming punk was yet to be 'born' during this time.

When it comes right down to it, it was here that a first of an identifiable scene, with an image and audience was going on. No doubt that many music fan circles by then were aware of the changes that were both happening and were to come. In other words, punk had an identity, and by the end of '75 it was very much happening in Eastern U.S. 66.66.118.16 (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC) ::[reply]

I just checked the audio comentary on the 25 year anniversary DVD of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and they said that Sue Blane's design of Frank's jacket in the 1973 stage production of The Rocky Horror Show predates simmilar design later popularised by McLaren. // Liftarn (talk) 14:05, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

those patches that are sewed into jackets or hung from the pants called i couldnt find them on this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.229.249.3 (talk) 01:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I no that girl Punk fashion is very similar to its male counterpart but I think that it needs its own little article in here. All the Punk girls I know have a different style of dress then in each of these lovely fashion sections. Punk fashion always struck me as being individual and self-promoting. Though I can understand what you guys are getting at with regionalism. Female Punk, however; seems less regional; perhaps because the female body is so different from the males or perhaps because females feel as if they have less options in the Punk scene then males. It strikes me as if a lot of the categories, both regional and subcultures would be unflattering on the female body and that probably has a large part in the way female Punks dress. (Though I admit perhaps what I have observed could be unique to my region)

(Before you guys accuse me I am not a Punk. In the sad world of high school categories, I have been given the title of hippie. I wonder perhaps if the Punks who read this are as hurt by being categorized as I was.) (68.89.43.45 (talk) 16:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

A real Punk would kick the offending person's teeth in instead of being "hurt", Hippy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.220.203.190 (talk) 20:55, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was an art student in the UK in the early and mid eighties, and I can tell you from personal experience that punk was out of fashion in the UK then. The height of youth fashion then was rubber catsuits, believe it or not, although only worn by the most daring girls, and people were also wearing outfits like those of Boy George. While punk was out of fashion in the UK, a milder version had come into fashion at that time in the US. Ample cause for confusion here. The article says "as liberty spikes or the Mohawk hairstyle". I do not know what liberty spikes are - I would guess they are American terminology for what was simply known as "spikes" in the UK. And the Mohawk hairstyle was called a "Mohican" in the UK. 78.151.102.130 (talk) 23:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

this was recently edited for a commercial purposes. nikede.com is the site i belive. please watch. Not the same one (talk) 16:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why is emo - most probably today's most common punk style - not mentioned in this article? --87.179.150.211 (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2009 (UTC) Probally because its considered its own thing --FailureAtDeath (talk) 00:53, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Same reason goths aren't talked about. Because no matter how related to punk the style is, it is not punk. Emo is not punk, so it is not on the punk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.17.158 (talk) 17:53, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Emo isn't punk. It's more like goth with middle class, not working class origins, and an artsy elitist attitude. Instead of creating their own style emos imitated pop-punk and skater fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.225.142 (talk) 23:10, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about emo-punk style? Emo-punk isnt really like the full fledged emo scene. 66.32.78.168 (talk) 05:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC) On the emo page, the emo-punk style is reffered to (darkwash skinny jeans, tight shirts, tight jackets). I guess the studded belts are included too. This kind of reminds me of scene fashion (bands like Chiodos) Railpunk (talk) 05:43, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's no such thing as "emo punk." What you're describing are scene kids —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.225.142 (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a trend in the hardcore scene to dress in a fashion similar to emo kids. This includes tight jeans, hair in the face, and eye makeup on guys. It's often referred to as "scene' or "fashioncore" (sometimes spelled fashionxcore). Someone needs to include this.--216.49.144.57 (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you're referring to the darker, more melodramatic metalcore andscreamo scenes that were influenced by hardcore punk (I think that's what these "scenes" are called now. I hate categorizing bands into vague, unhelpful "genres") I'm not sure why these recent "scenes" have come to be referred to as "hardcore," but the hardcore punk fashion section in the article is referring to the original, anti-fashion, working class, minimalist hardcore punk fashion that originated in the 80's with bands like Bad Brains and Black Flag. Hardcore punk originally involved simple hair styles (usually short), athletic wear and sneakers, chino khakis, t-shirts etc. Not "emo" hair or tight jeans. In fact, pants were baggy. You had to go as crazy as possible at real hardcore punk shows, and tight jeans, make-up and long hair are not conducive to moshing and jumping off stages.Callmarcus (talk) 07:38, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Scene kid" was originally a name for a poser (similar to "scene queens" on the glam rock scene of the 70s who pretended to be gay to get noticed). In the UK in the late 90s we used to call wannabe punks/goths who wore tripp pants, dressed like skaters (but didn't skate) and listened to Blink 182 scene kids. Today's scene kids are the same chavs turned pop-punk fans but now they're ripping off and combining indie, emo and hip hop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.251.159 (talk) 21:17, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WHo put emo under punk its not punk this page is stuipted enough im going to delete it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.32.231.211 (talk) 19:03, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, there is emo-punk which (as the name implies) punk. I mean, emo-punks used to be really like straight-edge people with sweater vests and whatnot... 66.32.78.168 (talk) 05:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Emo-punk is to Punk as Green Day is to Sex Pistols or The Clash. It's not Punk at all.31.220.203.190 (talk) 20:43, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why was this deleted? Ska-punk was big in the US during the 90s —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.251.159 (talk) 22:03, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I deleted it because all the descriptions were of skinhead and 2 Tone fashions, not 1990s ska punk fashions. Also, there were no references.Spylab (talk) 13:28, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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What would people think about including these? Or even a section for the fashion of 2-Tone Ska (which was mentioned in the Ska-Punk section)? Theburning25 (talk) 20:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you semi-protect your page because some nerd is putting their trashy pictures going to a punk concert and wearing a costume on the 70s/origin section. They always put it there and I always delete it. JUST LETTING YOU KNOW!!! Picaxe01 (talk) 5:16, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"Punk fashion has been extremely commercialized at various times, and many well-established fashion designers — such as Vivienne Westwood and Jean Paul Gaultier — have used punk elements in their production." <--- This is really inaccurate and completely illogical, Gaultier and Westwood are on completely different levels.

Westwood with McLaren put together the Sex Pistols image on the Kings Road in their shop, to the person that wrote this: do you know what Seditionaries was?

Essentially, Westwood was key to popularizing the Punk look of tartan, safety pins, loose knit jumpers and bondage trousers and PVC/rubber/fetish wear, commercializing punk?! She was one of the lead creators of what is now commonly seen as the punk image! Compare that to Gaultier!

- Von Betelgeuse 31.220.203.190 (talk) 20:34, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The following information is not correct & the source does not seem to exist any longer: "In the United Kingdom, a great deal of punk fashion from the 1970s was based on the designs of Vivienne Westwood and Malcolm McLaren and the Bromley Contingent." Citation goes nowhere: Walker, John. (1985) "Malcolm McLaren & the sources of Punk". artdesigncafe.

Punk is an example of bottom-up fashion. Vivienne Westwood was inspired by the punk apparel that she saw on the streets. - Monique 207.233.86.137 (talk) 15:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

i stumbled in here on a google search and wasted a few minutes flipping through it to be sort of taken aback by how focused on men this article is. it's true that some of the subcultures have been pretty male dominated, and that a lot of the fashion was unisex, but that's not what i'm getting at. it's just written with the underlying assumption that we're talking only about men. for example, consider the hardcore section that talks about short hair. well, if you're a dude, sure. yet, there was actually a kind of a really important female-driven hardcore scene centered in the pacific northwest (that doesn't even get a listing). i'm going to reword the hardcore section, because it's the subgenre i'm most familiar with, but this really needs a systemic overhaul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.48.181.93 (talk) 06:20, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ok, well, i tried. c'mon, wiki - you must realize that it's fucking ridiculous to suggest that the section on hardcore fashion should have ads for nike and converse. that's not just wrong, it's surreal. here's what i put in there:

Hardcore rejects consumer fashion trends as a way for youth to pointlessly piss away their labour to parasitic elements within the bourgeoisie. That is to say that hardcore punk is fundamentally anti-fashion. Instead, clothes are interpreted rationally with a desire to maximize functionality and minimize cost (in terms of wasted labour). As one example of matching clothes to a functional rather than a decorative basis, the prevalence of moshing and slam dancing at hardcore shows makes jewellery, spikes, chains and spiky hair an unattractive fashion decision for many hardcore fans.

Plain working class dress is usually associated with hardcore punk. Hair is usually not fussed over too much: men tend to retain a "clean shaven" aesthetic whereas women focus on simple hair styles, such as bobs or shoulder-length cuts. Dying hair unusual colours, however, is not uncommon for either gender. With clothing, mute colors and minimal adornment are the standard. Elements of hardcore clothing that are common to both genders include baggy jeans or work pants, athletic wear, cargo or military shorts, khakis or cargo pants, band T-shirts, plain T-shirts, muscle shirts, and band hoodies. Female hardcore fans can often be seen in tank tops, as well as tighter fitting t-shirts and sweaters.

specifically:

1) hardcore rejects fashion as bullshit 2) hardcore rejects corporate branding as bullshit 3) hardcore rejects sexism as bullshit

so, can we get this cleared up? or is wiki getting ad revenue from the nike links?

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Punk fashion/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Start-class on an article with possibly A-class level comprehensiveness because there are no footnotes. Mid-importance within fashion for its continuing influence and historical importance. Daniel Case 15:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 15:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 03:33, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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H Evrik, since you restored the content [3], was I wrong that it was copied from the I noted, and do you have a WP:RELIABLE for all of it? Thank you, 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 20:46, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63: I did a quick search back to the version of the page that existed back in 2018. It looked to me that the source you cited may have lifted the text from wikipedia, but I could be wrong. I did an earwig check, and found two other websites appear to have copied their language from here. --evrik ^(talk) 21:29, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for looking that up, evrik. There's still the stubborn source issue--once a few passages of unsourced content are accepted over a period of years, more original research tends to accrete. 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 18:50, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• I think this may be Wikipedia:BACKWARDSCOPY, but flag passages of concern. 20:29, 17 September 2020 (UTC)