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Talk:Ali-Shir Nava'i

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Recent edit and deletion

Hi there

Yesterday i added an edit as a continuation to Edward A. Allworth’s explanation as to how the Soviet Union claimed Nava’i to have an Uzbek identity and how it distorted the historical presence of Uzbeks in the region. I added further explanation to the context, in an effort to make the paragraph more detailed.

Then the entire edit was deleted by the user HistoryofIran, because apparently it isn’t sourced. However i didn’t source it since it comes from the same book and the body of research linked to already. Adding a second link leading to the place place would be useless, so i left it be that way. The information is credible however, as it comes from Allworh himself. So please look into it since it was merely an addition of details from the same exact source, a.e “Modern Uzbeks: From Fourteenth Century to the Present: A Cultural History”. Pigeon de Ville (talk) 00:12, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's true that Uzbeks were actually Kipchak speaking but can you provide the page and maybe the quote? Beshogur (talk) 00:32, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Providing the exact page would be difficult since it’s a more detailed explanation, so it lasts a whole number of pages. What i wrote down was basically a summary of the explanation.

However, the same arguments are made by other scholars like Vámbéry and Şeyh Süleyman Efendi. They’re referenced Eckmann’s “Chaghatai Manual” when he summarizes the way the name “Turki” and “Chaghatai” was used for sedentary Turkic population of Central Asia until the Soviet ethnic policies came changed all that. It’ll be much easier to get a relevant quote there, since that section is smaller in volume than Allworth’s book, plus i’ve read this book much more recently so my memory of exact page locations is fresher.

However the book uses Allworth’s research a lot and his quotes are also present, so i didn’t find it necessary to add a whole new link before Pigeon de Ville (talk) 22:09, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

( cross out the “came” after Soviet ethnic policies) and correction; (the names* Turki and Chaghatai were* used) 

Pigeon de Ville (talk) 22:12, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Pigeon de Ville: don't know if you are new here, you can use each page or pages for certain sentence. Beshogur (talk) 22:33, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, i’m new in terms of providing quotes. But i’ll look into both books.

If you want quotes from Eckmann’s book, i can get them much faster since i finished reading that book recently, so my memory is fresh. In case we’re only talking about Allworth, it’ll take a bit of time since i’ll find the book again and go through it to find suitable quotes, so in that case i’ll get back with the quote later. Pigeon de Ville (talk) 00:10, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

Ali-Shir Nava'i

Per MOS:BIO;

  • "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable. For guidance on historic place name versus modern-day names, see WP:MODERNPLACENAME."
  • "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability."

Ali-Shir Nava'i was not know for being Turkic, he was known for being a poet, writer, politician, linguist, Hanafi Maturidi mystic and painter who was the greatest representative of Chagatai literature. Also, Turkic is not a nationality. Kansas Bear (talk) 15:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

      • The ethnicity of the poets of the Middle Ages is noted in many articles devoted to such poets as Ferdowsi, Khayyam and others. Why did you decide to remove the ethnicity of Alisher Navoi? Wikipedia rules apply to everyone. Khorazmiy (talk) 17:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like you have an issue.
  • "Why did you decide to remove the ethnicity of Alisher Navoi?"
How is it you decided to restore an edit made by an IP? You are unaware of MOS:BIO?
  • "Wikipedia rules apply to everyone."
Feel free to go to those article talk pages and get consensus. Also, remember write the ethnicity into the article along with the reference. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You threating other users by using your lobby on Wikipedia. There are policies and if you want to remove ethnicties so badly start from Persian poets. They don't known for being Persian either. Also it's anachronistic because Persian wasn't a thing back then everyone called you as Tajiks. Regards. Write Seljukid to Omar Khayyam for proving your Wikipedia rules apply to everyone. point. --188.57.48.30 (talk) 01:21, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • How is it you decided to restore an edit made by an IP? You are unaware of MOS:BIO?
IPs started Wikipedia project you cannot say nothing to IP changes without lack of arguments. There are sources and everything is in line with the policies of Wikipedia. You must delete ethnicty in Omar Khayyam article too according to this pov to MOS:BIO. Regards. --188.57.48.30 (talk) 01:25, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

+plus you are breaking the WP:HUMAN rule with saying restore IP edit part --188.57.48.30 (talk) 01:28, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You must try to reach consensus first. --188.57.48.30 (talk) 01:40, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]


  • "plus you are breaking the WP:HUMAN rule with saying restore IP edit part"
A supposed new user that is spouting rules while ignoring what they do not like. Fuck off.
  • "You threating other users by using your lobby on Wikipedia."
I have no fucking idea what you are rambling about, nor do I fucking care.
It is quite clear that IPs can do whatever they want; using broken Encyclopaedia Britannica(unreliable source), ignore MOS:BIO, issue personal attacks(hate wikipedia), making baseless ignorant WP:ASPERSIONS. Pity, they aren't smart enough to take the ethnicity of an individual and write it into the article like I did on Ya'qub ibn al-Layth al-Saffar.[1] But continue to cry and cry and cry and cry about Omar Khayyam. LMAO
I do find it interesting that IPs say the same thing as user:Khorazmiy. Apparently they all suffer from an inability to understand MOS:BIO, WP:CONSENSUS, and WP:ASPERSIONS.
  • "Write Seljukid to Omar Khayyam for proving your Wikipedia rules apply to everyone. point."
Well, since Omar Khayyam is not referred to as Seljukid anywhere in the article that would violate WP:LEAD. Or did you not know that? "point"
  • "Wikipedia rules apply to everyone."
Then tell user:Khorazmiy, who has yet to learn to use edit summaries, to start properly attributing where they get sources they copy from one article and use in another article.[2] There's a rule for you!
Also, the reference added by Visioncurve proves that Ali-Shir Nava'i was not know for being Turkic but for being a poet. PER MOS:BIO.--Kansas Bear (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ali-Shir Nava'i

Ali-Shir Nava'i (9 February 1441 – 3 January 1501), also known as Nizām-al-Din ʿAli-Shir Herawī (Chagatai: نظام الدین علی شیر نوایی, Persian: نظام‌الدین علی‌شیر نوایی) was a Timurid poet,writer, statesman, linguist, Hanafi Maturid mystic and painter who was the greatest representative of Chagatai literature — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xasan 009 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image doesn't match

Hello, I wanted say that the main picture in this article doesn't match the article, it says Abdul Qadir, not Ali-Shir Navai, so it has to be replaced. Wiki Chad 777 (talk) 07:10, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quelle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ali-Shir_Nava%27i