Langbahn Team – Weltmeisterschaft

Talk:2024 South Korean martial law crisis

Requested move 27 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved —usernamekiran (talk) 03:54, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2024 South Korean martial law crisis → 2024–25 South Korean martial law crisis – The crisis is practically guaranteed to continue into 2025, although I guess this is a scope question: is the article just about the martial law declaration and its immediate aftermath, or the broader crisis it caused? 2024–25 South Korean political crisis should probably be created if the former. charlotte 👸🎄 16:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. - Sebbog13 (talk) 22:06, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Has there been a martial law crisis (not martial law, but a crisis) prior in South Korea? Maybe drop it if not? And even if there has been a prior crisis what about WP:COMMONNAME? - Sebbog13 (talk) 22:08, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can support South Korean martial law crisis, if it is the primary topic. - Sebbog13 (talk) 22:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would definitely support this, as per my oppose, of course assuming this is the primary topic - don't think anything similar has happened in the past. CommissarDoggoTalk? 22:12, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since martial law has been declared so many times (17 as of Yoon), I think South Korean martial law crisis would cause confusion.
@Sebbog13 Even if there could be martial law without a crisis, I would definitely count the coup d'état of May Seventeenth as a previous "martial law crisis". WriterArtistCoder (talk) 02:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Idk about this. I think the enactment of martial law in itself is a crisis, so removing the date leads to confusion with prior martial law incidents seefooddiet (talk) 23:51, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Seefooddiet: martial law crisis, not martial laws. Also it's probably WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. - Sebbog13 (talk) 03:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still not really convinced. I think my earlier reasoning applies and the previous martial law periods have extensive coverage in English and other languages. seefooddiet (talk) 03:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Martial law in South Korea is probably individually notable, if someone is so inclined... charlotte 👸🎄 03:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, that should be a new article summarizing all martial law events WriterArtistCoder (talk) 02:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per scope, arguably the crisis ended when the martial law ended or after Yoon was impeached. CommissarDoggoTalk? 22:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, for one this an obvious WP:CRYSTALBALL, for two I'm fairly certain the actual crisis has ended. Feeglgeef (talk) 23:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This might fail a very literal interpretation of CRYSTAL, but we are under four days from 2025 and a major event just happened. If the Constitutional Court trials for both Yoon and Han happen and the protests magically end before 2025, I would be very damned, but that will not happen. charlotte 👸🎄 03:44, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The crisis part is over. Everything has been resolved. One would not say that the January 6th ended in 2023 because some people are still being prosecuted. This should really be it's own article called "Response to the 2024 South Korean martial law crisis" or something Feeglgeef (talk) 03:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or "Aftermath of the 2024 South Korean martial law crisis" Feeglgeef (talk) 03:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, I agree with above that the actual crisis is well over by now. Impeachment proceedings will continue into 2025 but those are just effects stemming from this event. I would also support dropping the year altogether. Yeoutie (talk) 04:02, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with dropping the year, per my above comment. seefooddiet (talk) 04:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose The martial law was declared in 2024, just because the aftermath continues into 2025 doesn't mean it should be renamed. 𝙏𝙚𝙧𝙧𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙢𝙖𝙣地形人 (talk) 06:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could support creating the latter page. Image2012 (talk) 11:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Queen of Hearts Very much disagree with the position that the crisis in South Korea finished with the martial law repeal, or with Yoon Suk Yeol's impeachment—in fact, Yoon's still-ongoing impeachment process apparently being stonewalled by his party allies is pretty much the reason they impeached Han Duck-soo as well.
However, after thinking about this a bit more, I also support making a separate 2024-25 South Korean political/constitutional/somethingorother crisis article instead. Everything would be cleaner that way, and would probably help an ITN Ongoing nomination too. Yo.dazo (talk) 11:58, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose January 6 United States Capitol attack and 9/11 had effects that stretched far throughout the days and years after. This should be treated the same. I would also be open to South Korean martial law crisis if it is the only such crisis. ✶Quxyz✶ 00:25, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per above, I don't think it is the only 'crisis'. Every enactment of martial law can be seen as one. seefooddiet (talk) 00:33, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I think there's an implicit ...and its aftermath after the title. If events directly related to (not just set in motion by) the martial law declaration continue into 2025, such as another martial law declaration, I would support. WriterArtistCoder (talk) 02:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think there needs to be a new overview article called the "2024–25 South Korean political crisis" as the IP editor suggested, which will summarise the crisis that started with the martial law attempt, and the ongoing fallout from that attempt, which now includes the impeachment of Han Duck-soo. --Minoa (talk) 18:45, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until 2025. If the aftermath is continuing (It most obviously will but i'm saying this for precedent purposes), then Weak oppose as per above statements.
DM5Pedia 23:17, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose now that we are in 2025. It appears the Martial Law crisis was one event in an overall South Korean failed coup, The main article likely actually should be titled 2024 South Korean self-coup attempt, which is a current redirect on this article and the direction it is going. and matches the convention on the List of coups and coup attempts article. Group29 (talk) 17:42, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    This is WP:OR with no sources provided. There's a WP:COMMONNAME analysis needed before "self-coup" can be determined as the title. I think it's possible it's the common name, but this vote shouldn't count in getting us there. Need to present more robust evidence. seefooddiet (talk) 00:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think renaming it to 2024-25 South Korean political crisis as suggested by some people here would be a prudent course of action, since media outlets like the BBC have been calling it as such.Image2012 (talk) 13:58, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per previous arguments, support renaming/split to "2024-25 South Korean political crisis" and possibly "2024-25 South Korean protests" as more could be written on the ramifications and demonstrations. MSG17 (talk) 16:10, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moving much of the Aftermath content to Events

This is clearly an ongoing and developing issue, what with the second impeachment and all, so the Aftermath section's contents (except perhaps Impact on South Korean military personnel) should be moved to Events instead. Seems that the article title was modified with this intent in mind as well. Yo.dazo (talk) 16:35, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yo.dazo, this is essentially being discussed in § Requested move 27 December 2024; if it gets moved, they should; if it doesn't, they should stay in aftermath (and a new article should probably be created for them). charlotte 👸🎄 03:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Queen of Hearts I see, thanks. Will be participating there. Yo.dazo (talk) 11:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should we merge the existing articles on this event into one?

I feel like since this crisis is just going to cause more events to happen. We should take the other articles of this crisis and merge them into this one. This would make a more efficient way of reporting the crisis as it develops — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howchecker (talk • contribs) 03:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. This article is about a very specific event, which is now over. The consequences of this now permeate South Korean politics, and will roll on for years, in a way that is too big for a single article to contain. — The Anome (talk) 10:26, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the same reason I oppose 2024-2025 martial law crisis for an article name, this is about the declaration of martial law, other poltical crises that may have been a long term result of this is nuance and belongs in seperate articles and only mentioned here where applicable and relevant in the aftermath section. 𝙏𝙚𝙧𝙧𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙢𝙖𝙣地形人 (talk) 23:03, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accurate Korean name?

Full disclosure: I do not know Korean.

That being said, I'm wondering if the Korean name is what Koreans would use to refer to this event on its own. The article states that the Korean name is "윤석열 정부 비상계엄", which seems to translate to "Yoon Suk Yeol government emergency martial law". But this name is from one article where it is only used in the headline as part of a longer sentence: "성공회 정의평화사제단 “윤석열 정부 비상계엄, 내란 행위 처벌받아야”" (Google Translate: Anglican Justice and Peace Priests Association: “Yoon Seok-yeol government’s martial law and sedition must be punished”). So it's not being used as a proper noun per se, but rather a reference to the fact that Yoon established this period of martial law.

The Korean Wikipedia article uses 2024년 대한민국 비상계엄 (2024 South Korea emergency martial law) but also uses 12.3 내란(12.3 內亂, December 3 insurrection) and 12.3 사태(12.3事態, December 3 situation). This seems to track with the use of dates in previous martial law references (and broadly in Korean and East Asian terminology). For instance, ko:5·16 군사정변 (16 May coup), ko:10월 유신 (October Restoration), and ko:12·12 군사 반란 (Coup d'état of December Twelfth).

If a Korean resident could provide more context or discussion that would be great. Thank you.

MSG17 (talk) 16:23, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Arguably the {{Infobox Korean name}} (and the displaying of Korean text for the title of this article) is not needed altogether; we're on the English Wikipedia and don't need to determine a WP:COMMONNAME for a different language. Also note that the Korean Wikipedia doesn't have WP:COMMONNAME as a policy.
All of the terms presented are fine imo. I don't know which is most common; it'll likely shift over time. I'd say some inclusion of "비상계염" feels most common to me for this event. While the number date matches other incidents, it's not really that common for this event in my experience. But that may change in future, due to recency bias.
tl;dr: I think we should get rid of the Korean-language text and not worry about it seefooddiet (talk) 21:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Quelle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2024_South_Korean_martial_law_crisis