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Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wales

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Wales. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Wales

European Regions Airline Association

European Regions Airline Association (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Moving from PROD to AfD. Looks like not meeting NCORP but maybe some sources do exist NiftyyyNofteeeee (talk) 13:21, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Celts (1978 TV series)

The Celts (1978 TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:GNG. All citations are just scripts and schedules DonaldD23 talk to me 03:27, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. Davies, Bernard (1975-06-09). "One Man's Television". Broadcast. No. 814. p. 19. ProQuest 1776921097.

      The review provides about 589 words of coverage about the subject. The review notes: "Last week's 'Chronicle' programme, The Celts (BBC 2, Wednesday), seemed to me to adorn its topic rather more than to explain it. Indeed, although it was packed full of information, and although the Heavy Brigade of archaeology—Professor Stuart Piggott and others—moved through it in echelon of squadrons, the programme was, as it were, inefficiently informative; the information was, no doubt, all there, but it did not come across. At least, here is one viewer—anxious to be informed, eager for enlightenment—who found at the end of the program-me that he had learned little new."

      The review notes: "Not, then, a documentary in the educational nuts-and-bolts style of, say, an Open University programme on topology (whatever that is), but a sort of reflective essay in the style of Montaigne or—more appropriately—Haz-litt, in which the author explores a theme from a personal standpoint; a theme which he adorns rather than explains. 'The Celts' conveyed a sense of enthusiasm for its subject which, surely, is a legitimate and important function of documentary. One may criticise it, unfairly, because it did not approach its subject in the style of a school or university textbook; one may criticise it, less unfairly, because the manner sometimes got in the way of the matter; one must, however, acknowledge the rare pleasure conferred by 'The Celts' as a creative programme, and the remarkable way in which it re-sensitised one's somewhat atrophied taste-buds to the achievements of Celtic peoples."

    2. Brayfield, Celia (1975-05-28). "Programme guide compiled by Celia Brayfield". Evening Standard. ProQuest 2712585962. Archived from the original on 2025-01-18. Retrieved 2025-01-18 – via Newspapers.com.

      The review notes: "The Celts. After Saturday's soccer international we in London hardly need to ask "Who were the Celts?" But this series is almost invariably fascinating and this piece of archaeological detective work should be well worth overcoming our prejudices to see. David Parry-Jones finds the Celts a vain lot—inclined to do battle with the Romans without helmets for fear of spoiling their coiffures. They were also, it seems, widespread throughout Europe notorious drunks, addicted to human sacrifice, ruled by wild-eyed Druids and capable of producing the finest art forms of any early European people."

    3. Day-Lewis, Sean (1975-05-29). "Television: Girl of compassion in Vietnam war". The Daily Telegraph. Archived from the original on 2025-01-18. Retrieved 2025-01-18 – via Newspapers.com.

      The review notes: "Commentary is unavoidable in television archaeology, but why David Parry-Jones had to compete with a battery of symphony orchestras and at least one choir in the sound track of J. Mervyn Williams's history of The Celts (BBC-2) I cannot imagine. In truth this was not among best-organised issues of "Chronicle." It was untidy in minor matters like the identification of speakers and left the major issue of where the Celts originated in a kind of Celtic twilight somewhere the plains of Hungary. The principal achievement was to reinforce the prejudices of those who dislike the Celts. One Anne Ross declared that they had lost Maiden Castle in Dorset to the Romans through drink and because they were better at making a noise than fighting. The script of Emyr Humphreys was a bit free with its generalisations."

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow The Celts to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 11:11, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Either this series was not made in 1978, or the three reviews found by Cunard are not about this series. I'm going to take some time to work out which it is, and if, whenever it was made and wherever it was shown, it is notable. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:10, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@RebeccaGreen: - The article claims that the series was only shown in Wales, yet the two newspapers in particular- the (London) Evening Standard and the Daily Telegraph- are based in England. Knowing what I know about the Anglo-centricity of the media based there, it's unlikely that even the Telegraph (distributed UK-wide) would have reviewed a Wales-only series.
Also, they appear to refer to a single episode of a series/strand/slot called "Chronicle", which references to the four-part "Celts" don't mention. Yet one of the people mentioned in their reviews (David Parry-Jones) is also linked to the 1978 series.
My guess- and to be clear I'm not claiming this *is* anything other than a guess!- is that the 1978 series was possibly either a more ambitious standalone take on the same premise inspired by the single-episode 1975 version or an otherwise unrelated series that had the same name because it was about The Celts by people who knew about the Celts.
(I should also make clear that while I "created" this article, that was only by moving existing content from The Celts (1987 TV series) and done in order to keep the two apparently-unrelated (and incorrectly combined) series separate. That said, I wouldn't have done so if I didn't feel the 1978 series was most likely notable enough to warrant an article). Ubcule (talk) 17:32, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Donaldd23: - That's fine, because the BBC scripts themselves aren't what's being cited there. (Indeed, their content- as far as I can tell- isn't even accessible via the link given nor available online).
The references themselves are the metadata record from the National Library of Wales- i.e. the aforementioned third party- describing an artifact they hold, i.e. the physical scripts.
That's not the same thing, and as such it arguably constitutes a demonstration of sufficient notability from a reputable third party.
Ubcule (talk) 18:53, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think being archived in a national library is an indication of notability in itself. National libraries are usually libraries of legal deposit (they hold everything published in the country), and they also archive unpublished material, ephemera, maps, etc, as part of their purpose of preserving the literature and culture of the nation. Not everything they hold is individually notable. RebeccaGreen (talk) 01:00, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Cunard: - Please see my comment above as it covers a couple of important points.
Firstly, it goes into more detail about why the single-episode 1975 "Celts" is most likely *not* the same as the four-part 1978 one- despite the involvement of the same people- and reviews for the former should not be associated with the latter.
Secondly, I mentioned this in passing in the same comment, but to make the point more clearly here... the review extracts you posted *themselves* strongly imply that the 1975 "The Celts" was *not* a "series" as your putative article states- nor even a standalone programme- but rather a single episode of an existing series or strand called "Chronicle":
(1) "Last week's 'Chronicle' programme, The Celts (BBC 2, Wednesday), seemed to me..."
(2) Although omitted by yourself, the original programme schedule you quoted from actually says
"8.0 CHRONICLE: The Celts. After Saturday's soccer international we in London..."
Note the general format used by the listing, with the time followed by the main programme title in capitalised bold text, followed by (where applicable) that week's particular episode or subject in regular text.
(3) "...J. Mervyn Williams's history of The Celts (BBC-2) I cannot imagine. In truth this was not among best-organised issues of "Chronicle.""
The "Chronicle" referred to is almost certainly this series which ran from 1966 to 1991.
As such, it's unlikely that this one particular episode would warrant its own article. Ubcule (talk) 00:07, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Ubcule:, @Cunard: - I notice that Chronicle (British TV programme) has no entries at all for 1975 in the table of episodes. This program, and the reviews as references, could be added there. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:48, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment: If the four-part 1978 series doesn't warrant an article of its own, I'd be open to suggestions about where it would best be redirected or pointed to since- as I mentioned above- my main aim in moving the content was to avoid conflating that series (and the content written about it) with the unrelated 1987 series of the same name. Ubcule (talk) 00:24, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Just to confuse the issue even more, I have found a 'TV Spotlight' column from 1976 in the Chester Chronicle which says "A LOOK at the old pre - Christian beliefs of the Celts can be seen the third programme in the series called ‘Y Celtiaid’ (The Celts) which will be shown on BBC Wales Television on Sunday. The druids will be discussed together with references to human sacrifice, the sacred oak of the Celts and lakes which were thought to be gateways to the other world. Taking part in the programme will be Professor Proinsias MacCana Dublin University and Professor Stuart Piggott Professor Archaeology at Edinburgh University the author of a book entitled ‘The Druids ’. Is this the same series? Was it made and shown before 1978? Is it yet another series called The Celts?
I am not finding more about a series shown in 1978 - just TV listings and one short 'coming soon' column which reads like a producer's summary, not a review. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:45, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This is an interesting relisting as there is plenty of discussion here but no actual "votes" here on what should happen with this article aside from the nominator. If the sources you are finding are for a different program with a similar or the same name, perhaps this article should be deleted and a new article should be written on the program/series that does have sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:50, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Per Liz's note above.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 06:09, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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