The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 04:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vlad Tepes (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

March to the Black Holocaust (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Underground band, no real sources to speak of, just two small interviews and an entry on Encyclopedia Metallum. The album also should go if the band does. Band tagged for notability and sources since March. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 01:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 01:14, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete / Neutral The sources basically aren't there, and never can be. They just don't have multiple releases on notable labels. The interviews are a step in the right direction, and I could easily pull out print reviews from the (very notable) likes of Terrorizer and the like, but if that's not enough, fair enough. Shame (I'm a fan of the band). Comes down to what you regard as "significant coverage" in this case; barring Mutiilation, they're the most notable of the LLN crowd. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:22, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment Blackmetalbaz, if you do have print reviews in Terrorizer or other mags, it would greatly help this discussion if you pull them out and give references. Irina666 (talk) 08:48, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete for the reasons stated above. BTW, Blackmetalbaz, where do I get my hands on that music? I'm intrigued. Drmies (talk) 01:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment I believe I acquired mine from Supernal Music in the UK; presumably bootlegs, obviously, but I'm not a fan of downloads. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:48, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks--I found a CD on Ebay, sort of a compilation. Can't wait! Drmies (talk) 01:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment The above conversation is probably the most bizarre thing I've ever read on Wikipedia. Two regular editors agreed that the article should be deleted for a group that one called notable and the other discovered on Wikipedia. It speaks to the vast divide between what regular editors do and what Wikipedia's users do with the site; it illustrates how Wikipedia's regular editors often do its users a disservice. I'll never win an argument to keep this article, because I don't own paper magazines that cover black metal, and no one is ever willing to extend enough good faith to presume the notability of a band (and in such an unpalatable (to most) genre at that). But I've no doubt they could be brought to bear to save the article. Chubbles (talk) 21:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment You appear to misunderstand the purpose of WP:AGF; it does not mean assume notability in the absence of sources. Burden of notability is, as it should be, on the claimant. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete due to lack of significant coverage, but if reviews from Terrorizer, etc. exist, adding them to the article may help get it to a point where it can be kept.--Michig (talk) 07:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- Raven1977 (talk) 04:59, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and Merge Vlad Tepes is one of more important bands of the LLN. A merger with the Les Légions Noires article might be appropriate. The LLN page needs content anyway. Maybe even Mutiilation can be merged with the LLN page. Welt^anschaunng 17:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment This might actually be a good plan. I reckon there's enough material for a separate Mutiilation album though. Getting the LLN page in order would be fantastic but I've really struggled to find sources. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment Yeah, as long as the information is preserved. This page (and Belketre) seem to have fallen in this loophole, where it is notable amongst the BM community, but not amongst regular editors of wikipedia. You can always mention Mutiilation on the LLN page, while retaining its original article. It doesn't hurt to duplicate, does it? Welt^anschaunng 12:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep It looks to me that, considering their musical field, this band would actually meet the "multiple releases on notable labels" requirement. The band started their career with a demo tape on Full Moon Productions, which is the label that introduced Burzum to the American market, and therefore played a seminal role in the establishment of an international black metal scene (this is referenced in Lords of Chaos). Another (split-)album has been released (and re-released 8 years later) by Drakkar Productions, which is admittedly as underground as it gets, but could be considered notable due to being probably the most prolific black metal label in France. Irina666 (talk) 23:00, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for March to the Black Holocaust as per Wikipedia:NALBUMS, if we consider the LLN notable, officially released albums should be considered notable too. Irina666 (talk) 06:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.