The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:13, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Lucanzo (1590) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:V. No real coverage of supposed historical battle. Fails WP:SIGCOV.WP:OR. No indication of significance. Refer to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Jaozinhoanaozinho and persistant WP:SYNTH, WP:PROFRINGE, and WP:GNG-failing articles report for further context. scope_creep^Talk 09:42, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Angola, and Portugal. Shellwood (talk) 11:45, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, regarding your claims, there is no (OR) in the article. The troop strengths, alliances, and outcomes are directly supported by the sources cited. The specific engagement of the new source I've added is labeled as "LUIZ SÈRRÂO AND THE BATTLE OF 1590.".

The topic is already significantly covered. I've found additional books that mention the battle, though I haven't cited them all. Jaozinhoanaozinho (talk) 19:41, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Jaozinhoanaozinho: If you do have sources, post them here per WP:THREE, so I can have a look. scope_creep^Talk 21:38, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Encyclopedia of African Colonial Conflicts: I-Z by Timothy Joseph Stapleton, 2016: "In 1590, Serrão organized an expedition that marched up the Lukala River into Ndongo. He sent his troops to Ngoleme-a-Kitambu, north of Kabasa, where he assembled the most powerful Portuguese force that Ndongo had ever faced, containing 15,000 African archers and more than 120 European arquebus infantrymen. When they arrived at Kabasa, though, they found a deserted capital. Some days later (December 29, 1590), they were surprised by troops from Ndongo and Matamba, who enveloped them and forced Serrão to retreat under heavy attack. He marched for 15 days to reach Massangano, suffering substantial losses. Besides losing many men, he also lost a great amount of merchandise and watched a massive desertion of supporting sobas. The response of the Iberian crown to this major defeat was to revoke Novais's private charter and replace the captain with an appointed governor."
• A Military History of Africa, Volume 1 by Timothy J. Stapleton, 2013, p.166

Other sources just briefly mention the defeat of Serrão, many labeling it as the "Battle of Lukala", for example in "The Portuguese conquest of Angola" by David Birmingham, 1965, p.19. Jaozinhoanaozinho (talk) 18:00, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That is laudable. If there is one real source and the rest are passing mentions then that is not notable. The first source isn't in-depth. Its a single sentence, essentially backing up several passing mention. The whole thing is a complete failure of WP:V. It really is. The core of writing a historical aticle on WO to have to have 2 or 3 of the best authors who write the standard works on the subject. Once have that then you have enought to pass WP:V] and more so, to prove its actually notable, then you go ahead and write. A single sentence like this and other passing isn't confirming notability. Its just notable. Its unfortunate in this situation that the battle was considered notable to recorded in any kind of details, even though it supposedly had 15000 archers. The whole lot is in doubt and entirely unsuitable for Wikipedia. You taken something should never been a articles, and puffed it right up to give a level of importance that doesn't exist and broken WP:NPOV. scope_creep^Talk 21:08, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There does seem to be a large number of gbook sources, but they are all close to pass mentions. It does name it as a battle, but the details are so tenuous, virtually nothing beyond when it took place, and the numbers involved. See what other folk say. scope_creep^Talk 21:28, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Wait There may be other sources for the existence of the battle.

Sr. Blud (talk) 15:44, 15 January 2025 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE. ✗plicit 14:12, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:SIGCOV.WP:OR. Javext (talk) 18:44, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This editor was blocked as a sockpuppet Doug Weller talk 11:30, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I hate reply, I meant Sr.Blud Doug Weller talk 11:31, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:06, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete This article is a synthesis of small, in-passing mentions of a long-ago event that has not received significant coverage. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 14:37, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.