The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was re-draftify‎. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 17:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Miguel Di Pizio (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Was previously in draft but moved back by creator. Di Pizio still does not seem to pass WP:GNG and a source analysis will shortly follow. Please note that he appears to be mentioned in The Daily Telegraph but I am unable to access that article due to a paywall. Please also note that GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC both need more than one source so, even if that source does contain significant coverage, it's not enough on its own. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:32, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Australia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:33, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table

Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
https://ccmariners.keepup.com.au/squads/3onwo3iof7iyuwrvbszlfhu6s?slug=3onwo3iof7iyuwrvbszlfhu6s&competition=300ig4lfofmkh3u971h34pbf8&teams=c4ygb6mnh53kpl2mpxe52l8jw&selected=MEN	His employer		No info	✘ No
https://websites.mygameday.app/team_info.cgi?action=PSTATS&pID=205707268&client=0-10179-196155-514696-26387798			Pure stats	✘ No
https://competitions.footballnsw.com.au/player/?hash_id=jmaBw0DGNR			Pure stats	✘ No
https://ccmariners.com.au/news/mariners-npl-mens-sides-ready-to-begin-their-campaigns	His employer		Mentioned once	✘ No
https://mens.nplnsw.com.au/2022/12/18/youthful-central-coast-mariners-keen-to-make-their-mark-in-2023/	His league		Mentioned twice	✘ No
https://ccmariners.com.au/news/miguel-di-pizio-signs-mariners-scholarship-deal	His employer		Routine scholarship announcement	✘ No
https://www.ultimatealeague.com/player/?player_id=1611			Pure stats	✘ No
https://www.ultimatealeague.com/match/?match_id=2676			Pure stats	✘ No
https://ccmariners.com.au/news/three-mariners-selected-for-u-17-australia-camp	His employer		Mentioned once	✘ No
https://int.soccerway.com/players/miguel-di-pizio/831575/			Pure stats	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:40, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep have found some independent coverage where this player has been noted particularly by sports journalists. Added to article. Jack4576 (talk) 12:06, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - My analysis of the 3 new sources is as follows: Football Australia is just a video of an interview. There is no independent analysis here. Shepp News 1 - you have to be quick here as it's paywalled but all I can see is that this is a match report and Di Pizio was declared man of the match in an under-17 game. Shepp News 2 mentions him 3 times in the entire article, one of which is an image caption. Again, you have to be quick to read the article before the paywall blocks it. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Keep. I can confirm Di Pizio is a real player and made his debut in the most recent F3 Derby against Newcastle. He's is a professionally contracted player in the A-League, so a notable athlete.

  At worst move it to draftspace but don't you dare delete his work, especially given it's legitimate and Di Pizio is a real player. Cheers. Matt jobe watson (talk) 13:44, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Being 'real' does not equal notability. I can confirm that I am, in fact, a real person too but for the same reasons as Di Pizio (lack of WP:SIGCOV), I don't warrant an article. If he does have significant coverage, please link me to the specific news sources that have this. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Per Jack4576. Young player with ongoing career in fully pro A-League Men which receives lots of media coverage. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 15:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

His age isn't relevant nor is whether his career is still ongoing (I'd be surprised if it were not 'ongoing' at 17 years of age) nor is the professional status of the league that he has, to date, played a mere 5 minutes of football in! You say that he has received 'lots of media coverage', where is this? If we have two pieces of WP:SIGCOV then we can speedy keep this and close the discussion but, so far, nobody has offered any although Jack did at least attempt to find some. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - no evidence of notability. Best sources are from his Federation, they need to be independent. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 20:08, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Other sources include local outlet Shepperton News. Jack4576 (talk) 06:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - If you do plan on deleting by the end of this discussion, at least move it to draft space. It's tiring having work you spent countless hours on just getting removed like that. JC Kotisow (talk) 02:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

JC Kotisow why did you remove the references to Shepparton local news? Its an independent and reliable source, helpful for establishing notability Jack4576 (talk) 06:39, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because you're putting it in a paragraph where it doesn't have any relevance to the topic besides his name. I can put it in the international section where he played a key role in the u17 squad though. If you have any issues please put it in the article talk page and not in its deletion talk oage. JC Kotisow (talk) 06:47, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It supports the claim that "Miguel Di Pizio (born 4 January 2006), is an Australian professional footballer who plays as a midfielder for Central Coast Mariners" hence I thought it appropriate to put it in the opening. Jack4576 (talk) 09:31, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection to the article being retained as a draft or at a userspace location like User:JC Kotisow/Miguel Di Pizio until the subject gains enough significant coverage to warrant his own article in an encyclopaedia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 07:19, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Still keep in my view.

SIGCOV is not a requirement for notability, it is a criterion that merely generates a presumption that a subject is notable.

This subject represents Australia internationally, and has played in the A-League. This is enough, in my view, to demonstrate notability and worthiness of Wikipedia inclusion. Jack4576 (talk) 09:34, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If not based on SPORTBASIC, GNG or WP:BIO, what guideline is your stance based on? Or is it more WP:IAR? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:09, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My stance is not based on a guideline. My stance is based on the ordinary meaning of 'notability', and a good faith turning my mind to what that term means in this context; based on everything we know about Miguel.

At the end of the day, an intuitive good faith judgement is required. The guidelines are helpful in establishing presumptions toward notability; but even when an entry doesn't meet any requirements, it is still necessary to take a step back and make an intuitive good faith judgement as to whether a subject is notable.

My view is that Miguel is one such case, for the reasons provided above. (Aus intl player, A-League, etc) Jack4576 (talk) 10:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also BIO does state Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject. - the language used here seems to suggest that SIGCOV is a requirement rather than an optional extra. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IMO this requirement is met by the existence of this interview: link

Football Australia and its media arm is independent of the subject, and here they have provided an interview/profile of him. IMO this amounts to significant coverage. Jack4576 (talk) 10:45, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Football Australia is the governing sports body, it is absolutely not independent of its members. JoelleJay (talk) 21:09, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is independent of the subject of this article Miguel. Miguel is not a member, his club is a member. Jack4576 (talk) 02:01, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is not how it works. The sports body has a vested interest in promoting its players, therefore it is not independent. This has been consensus for years and has repeatedly been reaffirmed (including recently). JoelleJay (talk) 17:40, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of WP:SIGCOV. Alvaldi (talk) 11:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Fails GNG due to lack of independent significant coverage. –dlthewave ☎ 13:16, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: Shepparton local news is independent, and identifies this player specifically as a highlight Jack4576 (talk) 02:00, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Agreed with the source assessment table and the assessment of the local source. Does not pass GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 20:57, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: the Shepparton Local News source is not in the table and has not yet been assessed above. Jack4576 (talk) 01:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Article fails WP:GNG per nominator's source analysis (and the newly offered sources are routine/trivial or not independent of the subject). Jogurney (talk) 22:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: The coverage in Shepparton local news is not routine (he is specifically referred to as a standout player)

  It is also an independent source.Jack4576 (talk) 01:57, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Both items are routine and trivial. One is a match report and one is a match preview; neither cover Di Pizio in-depth. Jogurney (talk) 17:23, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Disagree. This is more substantial than the example of triviality provided at GNG Jack4576 (talk) 12:19, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  By that logic, the subject fails GNG because the coverage is not as substantial as the example of non-triviality provided at GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Restore draft per above source analysis. Frank Anchor 18:26, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: BLP, fails GNG and BIO per nom's source eval and BEFORE. Keeps show nothing with SIGCOV from IS RS addressing the subject directly and indepth. WP:BLP states "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources"'; BLPs need IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability per well known core policy (WP:V and WP:BLP) and guidelines (WP:BIO and WP:IS, WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV).  // Timothy :: talk  04:55, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.