The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. JForget 00:50, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of rulers of Ruund (Luunda) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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No encyclopedic content. No sources or references to speak of anyway. Almost all pages linked are redlinks. Fails to establish notability. Outback the koala (talk) 03:50, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:47, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Note: The content is transferred from the website Rulers.org. --Vejvančický (talk) 14:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case, this should be speedy delete. per G12. Outback the koala (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I no longer favour speedy delete, but there is still no notability (and no intro). I still favour delete. At the very least this should be be merged (see double page List of rulers of the Lunda Empire). Outback the koala (talk) 03:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Lots of detail, not one source. Sorry, no. It ain't 2004 anymore. Mandsford (talk) 18:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Source found. Not a copyright violation either. It is simple list in obvious order. See Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service. Rmhermen (talk) 19:55, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete G12 Thank you for the legal opinion, but plagiarism is never OK, nor should Wikipedia ever encourage its contributors to ignore an assertion of copyright. It's a stretch to compare this to a telephone directory. Going by the summary in the article listed above, "The court ruled that Rural's directory was nothing more than an alphabetic list of all subscribers to its service, which it was required to compile under law, and that no creative expression was involved." Vejvancicky has persuaded me that this is plagiarism, and the person who compiled rulers.org asserts a copyright over his work "©1995-2010 B.Schemel". Clearly, an administrator needs to intervene in this discussion. Mandsford (talk) 15:21, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The question is how reliable is the website Rulers.org.--Vejvančický (talk) 11:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: Is an important part of history. Not many sources would be found, but history of rulership of a place is notable. May not be well-known in the US, but still is notable. Dew Kane (talk) 18:52, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Good news! Here's an even better List of rulers of the Lunda Empire. The author of that one couldn't be bothered with such things as sourcing either. Maybe this piece of garbage can be merged into that piece of garbage. Mandsford (talk) 20:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  Your not sarcastic at all 'Good News' was reminiscent of Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth and left me laughing. Nice. Outback the koala (talk) 00:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as copyvio. (Don't want to put the G12 tag back although I believe it qualifies) It seems the admins are not in agreement about what a copyvio is and what is not. List_of_rulers_of_Kuba was speedied on Friday. This and some others have been declined. Presenting research results in list form does not prevent them from being protected by copyright law - this is not a list anyone could assemble without much trouble. --Pgallert (talk) 12:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Change to keep, looks better now. The list itself still has remarkable resemblance with the entry at Rulers.org, but I assume they extracted it from the same book. --Pgallert (talk) 09:52, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Actually, this list is not a piece of garbage, it seems to be quite correct, if you check the content using the book Lunda under Belgian rule: the politics of ethnicity (fragments available on Google Books). The author of the book, Edouard Bustin, appears to be a reliable authority in this field. The article has some room for expansion. I'm not sure with the copyvio issue, but the content is not garbage, it is a part of Africa's history. --Vejvančický (talk) 14:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please - add it to the article as a source! It would establish notability and finally provide a reference and all this content can be saved. Outback the koala (talk) 18:01, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've added more facts and relevant references. I'm not familiar with the "political" situation in Africa in the 19th century, and the searching in fragments of the book is quite complicated. Additionally, there is a problem with the alternative spelling of names of listed rulers. I tried to check the facts carefully, but this clearly need attention of a better informed person. However, I think this list should be kept here.--Vejvančický (talk) 08:12, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Question: Vejvančický, can the same be done to List of rulers of Kasongo Luunda (Yaka), also up for AfD here? --Pgallert (talk) 09:52, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Very good work by Vejvancicky, who has consulted a source and mentioned what the source was. Copying and pasting someone else's list and then presenting it as one's own creation is never okay. That crap may have been tolerated in Wikipedia's early days, but not anymore. Mandsford (talk) 16:19, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.