The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. v/r - TP 16:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fernando Ledesma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

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Non-notable football (soccer) player. My attempts at WP:BEFORE show no evidence that he has ever played for a top-level team. Currently plays for a second-tier team, previously played for a junior team affiliated with a top-level team. Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG - Jorgath (talk) ^(contribs) 14:26, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 17:14, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 17:14, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 17:14, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Passes WP:NFOOTBALL as having made one appearance in the Chilean Primera División B (per Soccerway), which is a fully professional league (per WP:FPL). Mattythewhite (talk) 21:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Withdraw on those grounds. I saw that he'd played for them, but my eyes must've skipped over Chilean Primera División B on the WP:FPL list when I was nominating. - Jorgath (talk) ^(contribs) 02:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I found one mention of this person - a match report that shows he made a substitute's appearance in one second-tier Chilean league match. It clearly fails the GNG and we simply don't have enough information to prepare a decent article at this time. Jogurney (talk) 13:44, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: I can easily just revamp this page. The Chile 2nd Division is professional and he had played in it (mind you once but that should not mean this page is deleted.--Arsenalkid700 (talk) 01:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • How much can you add to the article? I found no coverage other than one match report. Jogurney (talk) 22:45, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - per Jogurney ChrisGualtieri (talk) 00:32, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. I thought the nomination had been withdrawn? Mattythewhite (talk) 15:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Reply I did withdraw it, but I didn't feel entirely proper NAC-ing it myself, and a delete !vote came along before anyone closed it. I suppose I should make it clear, though, that my withdrawal means that I am in favor of keeping it, since he does meet WP:NFOOTBALL. - Jorgath (talk) ^(contribs) 15:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Sorry about the confusion. I would be happy to re-nominate the article for deletion - since I don't think less than 45 minutes of play in a second-tier league is enough to be notable without a realistic chance of passing the GNG (which this article doesn't have). Jogurney (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• No, your delete !vote makes it so I'm perfectly happy to have the discussion remain open. I just want to make it clear to the closing admin that I'm striking the assumed delete !vote that comes with being nominator, and that I support keeping it. - Jorgath (talk) ^(contribs) 05:23, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - meets WP:NFOOTBALL, and Arsenalkid700 has offered to work on article to meet WP:GNG. Time should be allowed for this, and if it doesn't happen, we should review in future. GiantSnowman 09:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - passes WP:NFOOTY, Note – I've improved the article to a certain degree. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 11:15, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you for improving the article, but I don't believe it passes GNG (nor could it). It's possible this player will see more playing time in the future, but I think we can recreate when (if) that happens. Jogurney (talk) 12:25, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Jogurney with respect, given the fact he passes WP:NFOOTBALL & yet you still want to delete, when exactly would you like the article to be recreated if it was deleted when he starts five games, plays ten games, plays 30 games? If you have an issue with WP:NFOOTBALL leniency then fine raise that issue at WP:FOOTY but the article passes specific guidelines why have them if weren't going to abide by them. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 12:41, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've always viewed NFOOTBALL as working together with (rather than separate from) the GNG, and I've consistently called for the deletion of articles about people who played less than 90 minutes in a pro-league if it is not possible to write an article that satisfies the GNG (such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cosmos Munegabe). Jogurney (talk) 03:57, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

While I understand - agree, even - with the principles used in the Munegabe AfD, I don't think they apply here. We do have his date of birth and basic biographical data. In the Munegabe case, the fact that we had no ability to obtain even that kind of simple data was, in my opinion, the determining factor for crossing the WP:COMMONSENSE line. That basic problem doesn't apply here. - Jorgath (talk) ^(contribs) 12:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The article is improved till certain extent since nominated. It passes WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL →TheSpecialUser^Talk_{Contributions}* 09:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.