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I see that Good ol' Factory has started to move some of the associated pages that relate to this article. With this, is there a way that you can also go and fix all of the now misused terms that link back to this article. Is there an automated way to do this? Thanks, --RichardMcCoy (talk) 12:10, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Misused could be rather strong of a statement. Generally when a page is moved, editors don't go through and change all references to an article. Redirects are cheap and leaving them causes no harm. When the redirects are for natural terms that are in common use, there is generally no reason to change them. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:40, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I should have put "misused" in quotes. I would have thought that because you fought so hard for the changes alongside User:Mike Selinker and User:Good Olfactory, you would have taken responsibility for the various messes that now exist because of them. Only Good OlFactory has gone back and redressed some of the now confusing and messy details of your changes. Frankly it's disappointing, but not surprising, to see your flip attitute and unwillingness to clean up the mess you've started. So it goes. --RichardMcCoy (talk) 01:32, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please try and go easy on other editors. Everyone here is a volunteer and obviously we each have only a limited amount of time and energy. For each of us, how we prioritize the various work we do on Wikipedia is really our own business. Other users may also have different views on whether what exists is or is not a "mess" and how much further work is required, so we need to avoid projecting our own views on others and avoid assuming that they are thinking what you are thinking about any given topic. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I wonder how this decision affects the article that defines those that work in the profession, Conservator-restorer? --RichardMcCoy (talk) 12:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that absent a new discussion, it would have no effect on that terminology. The nominator's nominating statement above includes the comment: "while conservator-restorer is a legitimate term for a person in this field, 'conservation-restoration' is far less common". Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 20:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard this term used before. What gives, and what's the rational? --RichardMcCoy (talk) 01:40, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi RichardMcCoy. Thanks for talking. I see there has been discussion before about the name and scope of this article. From a broad perspective, the article has evolved away from simply "Art conservation" (a topic that is now notably absent in Wikipedia), to "Conservation-restoration" (a term not common in the literature, and arguably poor English). Let's take a fresh look. From a broad perspective the term "conservation" needs disambiguation from the most common use as applied to environment and natural resources. As far as I can determine the most common terms in the profession are "conservation" and "preservation" (distinguished mostly between British and American usage, but also by certain nuances and historical use like "textile preservation" and "art conservation", and always with a qualifier like "conservation of cultural heritage", "art conservation", "cultural heritage conservation", and often together with the term "restoration", sometimes "reconstruction", as is used in a recent textbook). The choice between "conservation", "preservation", "conservation and restoration", etc. and the need for a qualifier about "culture" or "cultural heritage" is clear in terms of the use of the term beyond just art. Adding the qualifier "cultural" for "Cultural conservation" keeps it simple; although better alternatives might be "Conservation (cultural)", "Conservation (cultural heritage)", "Conservation of cultural heritage", or "Cultural heritage conservation", or back to "Art conservation". What do you recommend? TheProfessor (talk) 14:55, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article name is now "Conservation (cultural heritage)", with "Art conservation" as an equivalent in the lead, and with redirects from "Art conservation" and "Conservation-restoration". TheProfessor (talk) 14:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Conservation-restoration is pretty commonplace around artifacts, rather than flat art. Conservation alone (as it's never presented with the disambigautor) looks far too much like environmental conservation or broader socio-cultural conservation, rather than the type of technical work carried out by conservators, as described here. I'd move it back. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:20, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input. Let's see if we get more discussion. TheProfessor (talk) 23:42, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You will also have to deal with all of the categories and related articles around this subject should you stay with this move. In my opinion, this article is a mess that others have identified before (outside of Wikipedia), but it's such a mess no one has really wanted to step up and fix it. --RichardMcCoy (talk) 11:19, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it may be simplest to move the article back to Conservation-restoration. My preference would be to settle on a name that establishes a foundation for Wikipedia's treatment, which needs to be done from a bigger picture of related articles. This is a bit of a tangle both in terms of terminology and scope. In reading back through past discussion and perusing some of the literature (concerning art conservation, "conservation" with respect to cultural heritage, collection care, etc.), a good overall structure gets a bit messy, though I do see several options for what might provide be a good path forward. First, I think Wikipedia needs a clean article about Art conservation (which as I understand is where this article started). This could either be the more extensive article, given this is a big field, or a relatively small article that provides historical context and an overview. Second, Wikipedia needs an article about "Conservation of cultural heritage" (some alternative names include "Conservation (cultural heritage)" or "Conservation-restoration", or "Conservation and restoration (cultural heritage)", etc.) that focuses on the technical field and serves as a kind of umbrella for untangling the various terminology and approaches, so as to provide a good framework with respect to accessing related Wikipedia articles. TheProfessor (talk) 15:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is a mess in the professional field so it's not surprising that it's a mess here. There really needs to be a conversation about this in the conservation community ... but I doubt that it's much on their radar.

--RichardMcCoy (talk) 18:55, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like this talk page has been quiet for a couple years. This is my first time looking closely at this article, and I'm interested in helping out. There's a lot of work to be done, but the first huge red flag to me is the Conservators in private practice that provide resources section of the External Links. My view is that this needs to be deleted, pronto. Every single conservator in private practice can provide "resources." That's what they do. We can't list them all here, so we shouldn't list only a few. If a conservator in private practice has made highly notable contributions to the field, that should be in the body of the article and it should be cited. I'd delete this right away but I think one of the people on this list was an editor involved on the talk page at some point, right? (It doesn't appear that WP:ADV has been brought up, but it should be.) It seems like this was a pretty touchy subject, but that was 8 years ago, so I'm just checking in to see who's still kicking around in here. Full disclosure: I'm in grad school for conservation (but my motivation here is making Wikipedia better). Cheers, Michellecornelison (talk) 04:06, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'm back three years later and it looks like no one who watches this page had strong feelings about this, so I'm going to go ahead and delete the Conservators in private practice that provide resources section of the External Links because of WP:ADV and other issues mentioned in my comment above. Cheers, Michellecornelison (talk) 06:33, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am proposing to add information regarding sustainability in conservation to the Conservation and restoration of cultural property page. I am a new editor to Wikipedia under the program IIC COP 26 (which will happen on 10 - 11 November 2021), and my proposal is the following:

• In the end of Ethics, I would like to add one sentence regarding the joint declaration on environmental guidelines between IIC and ICOM-CC.
• I would also add a new sub-topic in Practice entitled "Sustainability in Conservation" to present SiC and some of their resources, with particular foccus on their Tips & Tricks.

--Ana Tourais (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid Wikipedia is not a link directory, and Wikipedia articles should not be used to link to (or 'present') organizations or their materials. - MrOllie (talk) 21:23, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking on something like this for Ethics: "Recent concerns related to sustainability in conservation have emerged leading, for example, to a joint declaration on environmental guidelines between IIC and ICOM-CC, published in 2014. [References: https://www.iiconservation.org/archives/about/policy-statements/environmental-guidelines, http://www.icom-cc.org/332/-icom-cc-documents/declaration-on-environmental-guidelines/#.YYhJ_WDP3IU, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00393630.2016.1166018]"

Perhaps I can improve my proposal for Practice by adding information from SiC as well as articles which present other examples of sustainable practices in conservation. [References: https://www.sustainabilityinconservation.com/tipsandtricks, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/19455224.2011.566013?needAccess=true, https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/13/7/3609/htm)

Is any of these suggestions acceptable? (Apologies for note referencing correctly here, I am still figuring out how to do it.) --Ana Tourais (talk) 22:15, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned that an organization (IIC) that has previously had problems with conflict of interest editing is organizing an edit-a-thon with the apparent goal of adding more mentions of themselves to Wikipedia. I'll be opening a discussion about this at our noticeboard on conflict of interest editing shortly. MrOllie (talk) 22:31, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding this topic, I altered the text I proposed before, including a broader range of references. You can take a look at a more complete draft below. I am indeed a member of IIC, but this is a single initiative from which I will not have any return. I hope this makes it possible to publish. The goal is to bring the issue of sustainability to the page.

Proposal:

For Ethics:

"Keeping up with the international contemporary scenario, recent concerns with sustainability in conservation have emerged. The common understanding that “the care of an artifact should not come at the undue expense of the environment”^[1] is generally well accepted within the community and is already contemplated in guidelines of diverse institutions related to the field.^[2][3][4][5]

For Practice:

- Sustainable conservation practices

Understanding that conservation practices should not harm cultural heritage as well as the people and the environment have led conservators to consider, discuss and explore their methods and alternatives, through research projects^[6][7] working groups,^[8] initiatives by associations and/or organizations,^[9][10] among others. The discussion around sustainable conservation practices applies both to institutional work^[8] (like museums or research centres) as well as to business work (like private studios).^[11]

There is a broad range of sustainable conservation practices that promote a more sustainable running of the workplace, regardless its type. These include opting for green energy alternatives, reduce energy and water consumption, engage in a responsible approach to the acquisition and transportation of products, materials and objects, re-use and recycling materials whenever possible and conduct proper waste disposal, regulate levels of climate control not only according to collections but also according to the local seasonal climate, encourage personal to enact according to sustainable practices.^[4][12][11] Conservation treatments may also follow more sustainable practices by minimizing the use of products which production and use is dangerous for the environment and whenever possible replace them for green alternatives (which may include green solvents, emulsions, nanomaterials, etc.) ^[12][13]

--Ana Tourais (talk) 17:40, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note I've lent a hand by adding {{edit request}} and formatting the references. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]