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Three names have recently been added to the section 'Notable speakers' (Cleese, Dimbleby, Blair). The other names listed are presented as having been identified by John Wells as RP speakers, but no such reference has been given for the new ones. I think it would be a bad idea if this list were to start being added to with names that are not supported.I will remove these names unless they are given citations. RoachPeter (talk) 09:57, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agree - especially since Tony Blair is cited as an example of an Estuary English speaker. -- Q Chris (talk) 13:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I find the inclusion of the British Royal family rather startling, not to say confusing: HM, Prince Charles and Prince William all sound different. And Andrew sounds different from Charles.

Or is it meant to be a sort of time-lapse thing?

Paul Magnussen (talk) 17:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The idea of BBC pronunciation is, to say the least, absurd. Anyone who listens to Lyse Doucet cannot relate her vocal cadence with that of Mary Smalls. Zeyna Baddawy and the economics correspondent Andrew Harding have different accents. And, for listeners to the flagship 'Sportsworld', Alan Green does not sound like anything like his more 'standard' co-commentators Russel Fuller, Martin Foukes, Lee James or Mike Costello. James Coomarasamy is different from Andrew Harding. So, which is the BBC pronunciation? I prefer Messrs James and Costello for their clear diction and refined rhythm.

I would note that the sports section (as with items such as gardening or children's entertainment) has never been the sole preserve of RP speakers, even in the days when the BBC had a much smaller range of accents broadcast. Epa101 (talk) 13:15, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think the idea of having a list of Notable Speakers of RP is good, and it is essential that every person listed there is referenced, I am unhappy that all those listed are rtefeenced to John Wells, particularly as all seven individuals listed are male. Do any women speak RP apart from members of the British Royal Family? Mike Spathaky (talk) 09:49, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lyse Doucet is Canadian, I think; she speaks General American. Zeinab Badawi is an RP speaker, Philippa Thomas too. Rothorpe (talk) 12:54, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No objection to the recent addition of Emma Watson as an RP speaker, but her name has been added to a list supposedly put forward by John Wells. The Emma Watson proposal doesn't come from him. RoachPeter (talk) 17:53, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on the reference. Another possible female addition could be Diana Athill. There is a reference here, albeit from a rather poorly-written article. Epa101 (talk) 13:25, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I read the article and couldn't find a reference to RP (though this was clearly what the writer had in mind). RoachPeter (talk) 17:44, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I feel it would be useful to direct people to YouTube clips of the listed "Notable speakers" so they can get a feel for what RP sounds like in fairly natural speech, so I have located clips of all of the current list. I'm a bit hesitant about editing these into the article, since some people might object to using YouTube in this way. I'd be grateful for any guidance on this. (The edited version is sitting in my sandbox at the moment, if anyone wants to look at what I've collected together). I am actually pretty sceptical about RP in general and this list in particular, but I don't want to spoil it for people who are RP enthusiasts. RoachPeter (talk) 10:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The statement in this section "Conversely, the short vowel /æ/ becomes longer if it is followed by a voiced consonant. Thus, bat is pronounced [bæʔt] and bad is [bæːd]" needs correcting. The word "conversely" is not appropriate here. The phonetic process affecting vowel length is one of shortening of vowels preceding syllable-final voiceless (fortis) consonants, so that 'bat' has a markedly shortened vowel compared with the vowel in 'bad'. This error is found also in Vowel length and in English phonology and I have proposed (in Talk) changing all such cases. RoachPeter (talk) 10:46, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Now rewritten. RoachPeter (talk) 14:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The introduction states

• "An individual using RP will typically speak Standard English"

and then states

• "the contrapositive is usually correct. It is very unlikely that someone speaking RP would use it to speak a regional dialect."

These two statements are equivalent (a statement and its contrapositive are always equivalent). Adding the second statement just makes things sound more complicated and confusing than they are.

I recommend deleting the statement about the contrapositive. Shaferjo (talk) 07:46, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd point this matter out as I find the opening sentence to this article "Received Pronunciation (RP) is the accent of Standard English in the United Kingdom" rather confusing and somewhat misleading. The reasons why it is confusing is because most people in the United Kingdom as far as I'm aware don't speak Standard English with an RP accent, which is especially the case for Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales (except maybe the southern parts of the country) and even central and northern England (please correct me if I've missed a few). Another reason is because that description implies that people in the UK speak Standard English with the RP accent and not frequently with a regional accent even though most people would speak it with their own regional accents (which they may also use for the dialects of English in those countries/counties/areas) unless they've been educated with RP. Of course I know RP is the accent most people outside the UK associate with the UK or Britain, but it still isn't a very widely spoken accent within the UK itself.

Indeed in my own experience, as I've lived in England all my life, I myself mostly speak Standard English with a regional accent (or at least without RP), mostly a mild Yorkshire accent but with a few Southern/Midland English influences, as I'm from South Yorkshire but have lived in Staffordshire most of my life, and I haven't frequently encountered people with RP accents except towards Southern England and in School, College, University, and in films & TV. So I definitely suggest changing the opening description from "Received Pronunciation (RP) is the accent of Standard English" to "Received Pronunciation (RP) is the main accent of Standard English" as to me that is less confusing and doesn't exclude regional accents from Standard English. I'd be grateful if anyone an answer my query here as I don't want to change it myself without proper consensus, in case the edit is controversial, thank you. Broman178 (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is made clear later in the paragraph where it says "Peter Trudgill estimated in 1974 that 3% of people in Britain were RP speakers,but this rough estimate has been questioned by the phonetician J. Windsor Lewis.". I that they whole idea of people "speaking Standard English" is questionable, as most people will register shift, only using Standard English in formal or official settings. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:48, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply. I think you are right in saying that this matter is made clearer later on in the paragraph although I still think the opening statement should be reworded as like I said, it implies that RP is the only accent of Standard English when many regional accents are used for it in the UK. It could either be reworded to what I said above or also "Received Pronunciation (RP) is an accent of Standard English in the United Kingdom" and "Received Pronunciation (RP) is an accent mainly associated with Standard English in the United Kingdom". I think this was discussed in the past judging by the archives for this talk page, although I doubt theres been a definite conclusion/consensus for this matter. Broman178 (talk) 22:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest you be bold (WP:BB) and just edit it. I don't think anyone would object to either of your texts, though I find the second one clearer. If anyone does object we can discuss here and come to a consensus. -- Q Chris (talk)

Okay, I will go for it. I think I'll edit it using the second one for the time being and I'll mention in my edit summary that if anyone objects against it, they should discuss it here. Just thought I'd discuss it first before editing it in case my edit was controversial. Many thanks. Broman178 (talk) 09:13, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All done now. Broman178 (talk) 09:21, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't time in for a change in the trap vowel from /æ/ to /a/? Alan Cruttenden uses /a/ in the latest version of Gimson's, Pronunciation of English from 2018, as well as the Oxford dictionaries for native learners. Also, British library uses /a/ for the 'standard' and 'contemorary' version of Received Pronunciation (http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/case-studies/received-pronunciation/vowel-sounds-rp/), marking the old /æ/ as 'conservative RP'.

From a foreign learners perspective, the difference between British /a/ and American /æ/ is as almost as noticeable as the difference in rhoticity.