Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7

This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 9 sections are present.

The Guild of Copy Editors needs your help! The Guild of Copy Editors has a Requests page where editors can list their articles to request a copy edit. During January and February, the requests have been arriving at the rate of several every day, and we are getting a bit behind! We are putting out the call for a little help to get caught up. If you are interested in lending a hand, please select one or two articles from our Requests page and do a copy edit. Help a little or a lot; it's good karma! Thank you very much for any assistance you can offer. Your GOCE coordinators –S Masters (talk), Diannaa (Talk), The UtahraptorTalk to me, and Tea with toast (Talk)

Hello, TCO. You have new messages at La Pianista's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, TCO. You have new messages at La Pianista's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, TCO. You have new messages at La Pianista's talk page.
Message added 04:45, 28 May 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I am going to work on those issues in a couple days. I need to update some things with WPUS, the Newsletter and the Collaboration and then after that I will work on the list again. --Kumioko (talk) 02:23, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The flux (metallurgy) article was MOSTLY about fluxes as used in metal-joining, but that's just due to imbalance in this article, not a wrong meaning. The article does mention the many perfectly legitimate uses of fluxes as flowing agents (and also purifying agents and additives) in smelting-- it just didn't do that in the LEDE (now fixed). It just needed/needss some work to mention these up front (done), and expand the extractive section below (not yet done). After all, smelting is where the world flux entered metallurgy, and it hasn't ever left that use just because the hobbyist knows it better from solders, etc.

Thanks for your other work on fluorine. I think, BTW, that fluoride ions really do decrease the melting point in slags in much the same way they decrease viscosity in most fluorinated materials (by disrupting certain ionic interactions) but I haven't been able to find a good reference for this. However, fluorine's use in industry is probably more "all of one peice" than is realized by many chemists, and this disruption of stickiness gives the element its name also, very fittingly. SBHarris 20:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks better now. The whole thing is a little muddled, but that is just the state of our wiki-articles and the use of the word flux having so many different uses. I am NOT a smelting expert. But am used to seeing chlorides (and fluorides) used to dramatically reduce the melting (and boiling) point of metal oxides (and an ore is usually a metal oxide). Then again, it wasn't clear to me if the CaF2 is used to reduce melting points or if it's more about having Ca combine with the slags (they talk about lime as well...and that is really just a source of Ca, I guess). I donno...

In terms of mechanisms, there might be some vague connection of melting aids and slippery surfaces, but I would beware of making that analogy. I think of it more as the overall system thermodynamically having a lowered eutectic or some such. and the physical reason probably has to do with the F- help breaking up the network of metal and oxide. O2- and F- are actually very similar in size and behavior. And the structures like CaF2 are also seen in materials like UrO2. I donno though...TCO (talk) 20:31, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had most of your same thoughts. Undoubtedly Ca is useful by itself to get rid of phosphorus, and Cl salts do lower the temp by eutectic mechanisms. But on the other hand, the steel industry is STILL a big user of CaF2, when they could be using cheaper salts, so there's something funny going on that NEEDS F. In particular, fluorosilicates are busted up silicates, which are otherwise very hard and very difficult to melt. Perhaps some of that goes on in iron smelting. One place I do know there is analogy between low-melting fluorocarbons, SF6, WF6, UF6 and so on, IS in the formation of cryolite in the aluminum smelting industry. AlF6³⁺ is just "slippery" and the salt melts far more easily than any other aluminum salt. SBHarris 20:56, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a melting aid. Like a solvent almost. (That is what Meiers calls it.) That is more important than impurity removal (after all lime can be used for that and is). It is about the Fl ions and CaF2 is just the cheapest source of them. Adding halides into oxides reduces their melting points because the space-filling structure gets all messed up with different anions in there. Fe2O3 had one melting point on its own, and then a lower one with CaF2 there as well. It really is the same thing going on as when you do metal oxide crystal growth and use a "flux" to lower the melting point of the compound. Fe2O3 is a metal oxide is a "ceramic". Think this is kinda different (other than name) than using a resin for protecting the surface of a metal that you are welding or soldering. I really don't care to straighten out all the uses of the word flux and articles on them though...TCO (talk) 21:42, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See the wiki article on eutectics (in general mixing more crap together lowers the mp of each). Also, here is a google search on oxide fluoride ceramic eutectic: http://www.google.com/search?q=eutectic+ceramics&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADFA_en#sclient=psy&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&source=hp&q=eutectic+ceramic+oxide+fluoride&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=54a2aeb3c013e455&biw=1259&bih=594 TCO (talk) 21:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delay in responding; I've been a little over-busy lately and your sensible request got lost in the more heated commentary on my talk page. I have now restored User:TCO/Sandbox/Lexie Priessman and put a noindex template on it. Risker (talk) 17:39, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks man. I will build it up. She won an NBC nationally televised meet (the Nastia cup, I guess I can cite the TV program or some local newspaper or IG). Also is now on the US National Team (USAG website sources.) Was a member of the elite team that won an international meet over the Russians and Italians (Jesolo).TCO (talk) 17:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or I could stop content work and just start some random flame wars if you want. (TCO know trolling.) You'd have to repermaban me and then FQ will look bad, for being a liberal, though.  ;) TCO (talk) 17:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we can't have FQ looking bad, can we? So I'm glad I've opened the door to your further content contributions. Much more satisfying than flame wars, anyway.  ;-) Risker (talk) 17:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw you are back in action again. Good to see, we don't have too many editors like you around here. I've just gotten back to working on another strange American state fair contest: Combine demolition derby. It's one of the 5 manliest hobbies, it turns out. Qrsdogg (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are a cool guy. Thanks for putting up with the alligator snapping turtle, while not being one yourself. I notice you have been getting all kinds of GAs and DYKs done. Mega-props!TCO (talk) 14:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I got to work with Malleus on one of the GA's. He was very merciful towards me, considering my terrible prose :) Qrsdogg (talk) 15:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, TCO. You have new messages at R8R Gtrs's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.