Thanks Angela for the encouragement and the advice. I have joined the world of wiki just a day earlier and trying to make some humble contribution. Looking forward for more advice and guidance.

Thanks again. Best Friend

Hi Angela,

thanks for the welcome and the links you just added to my talk page. And also, thanks for prettifying my Longest English sentence entry.

I do have a question. I'd already found the links, but have not yet assimilated them. Am I right in assuming that it is OK by community norms to add an entry not properly marked-up. Obviously it would be better if it is marked-up, but I am just learning how to do so. My first contribution was an extension of Alfred Tarski and I had no clue as to formatting. As if by magic, it now looks nice! I pressumed that it was OK to extend the wiki before I'd fully mastered the how. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Thanks

vanden 23:37, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Angela, thanks much re: ATV. I've restored it for now, just to decipher what happened, as I wasn't aware it was listed on any copyright vio page, and I didn't see an ital notice at the top of it either. Give me a day to reconstruct. It doesn't seem like a wholesale copyright vio (the English in the article seems too terrible to be that) but if it's largely a copy of another site then I'll take the correct action. Thanks. Fuzheado

Thanks for moving my PiFast comment. I didn't know where to put it - I don't know all the pages in Wikipedia namespace by heart yet. -- Pakaran 23:55, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)

216.68.43.85 blanked VfD three times. Browser problems cause pages to be truncated, not completely deleted. If it happens again, I'll re-block the address. RickK 03:45, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I was just coming to say the same thing :) They did it three times, so I assumed it was on purpose. Adam Bishop 03:48, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

O goddess of deletion, I seek your wisdom. :) I'm doing some research into the completeness of Wikipedia and am working with the complete list of 200,000+ article names. However, in the course of browsing through the articles, there are a disturbing number of what I would consider junk names -- AaA, AardvarK, AbboT. Are these names that should be deleted and just lost in the swamps of Wikipedia? Or are there good reasons to keep these silly permutations of lowercase/cap letters? Fuzheado 06:18, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I may be a slob in the real world, but in the virtual, database world, I'm anal. So seeing these oddball entries in there drives me a bit nuts. If you think it's not good to get "into it" then I'll leave it alone and cover my eyes. :) Fuzheado 06:35, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

So, I (in a calm mood) reviewed the page history of Sesotho and I guess I shouldn't have accused you of deleting my contributions. I'm sorry.
Tiles' behaviour was rather unfair, however.

ZyXoas 11:00, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Angela, Polish mine detector - the part about it's construction, not the rest, the rest was rewritten by me = is not only from that one site. It's quoted in several pages in the web. I provided two webpages in which there are two identical versions, and stressed in summary where it came from. Both are quoting one paragraph from book. This is my fault that i missed the title of the book, but wonder whether putting line: From: "The History of Landmines" by Mike Croll published in Great Britain in 1998 by Leo Cooper, Pen & Sword Books Ltd. ISBN 0 85052 268 0, page 54:

Will be enough and enough with accordance to fair use rules, or not? Or just remove the paragraph altogether and leave only reference to the page? Szopen

Okay, thanks Angel. I had look at the pb reported on le bistro, but did not see anything special. Thanks for the note. Ant

Hola Angelita,

User:Niceguy deleted the listings for User:Szopen and User:Nico from Wikipedia:Problem users. Indeed, they may not warrant being listed there (perhaps just some kind of internicine tit-for-tat) but it seems odd to me that an "unknown" user should take this responsiblity into his hands (I reverted) and then "cover" the edit by subsequently making a strange alteration to something else which he called a minor "fmt" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Problem_users&action=history By the look of it, NiceGuy appears to be an account used solely to edit above-mentioned page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=Niceguy If you look at [1] you will see who NiceGuy probably is.

Perhaps you would care to review ProblemUsers to see whether Szopen and Nico still need to be there.

-- Viajero 15:41, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi again, I left a message on their user pages (User talk:Szopen User talk:Nico) suggesting they each remove the complaint against the other. Hope that solves things... -- Viajero 17:12, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi, re /delete pages, I've long thought automatic protection was sensible. Martin no doubt would object as he has an 'issue' with the very existence of the pages (every so often I end up having to move a /delete page he had moved to become a plain talk page back to delete. Usually a mini-revertion war occurs a couple of times and then he stops) while GrahamN would no doubt go ballistic and talk of cabals, undemocratic yada yada yada. But it is logical and sensible.

Re the notice: the problem is that if people shoot down to the bottom of the page quickly they may not see the notice at the top. I'd suggest the page be 'top'n'tailed', ie a notice at both ends. I've put a few bottom notices in so that people cannot miss them. Feel free to use my notice if you think it suitable. Maybe finish the page with a double line at the end, again to draw attention to the fact that the page is no longer 'live'. But I do think the most sensible solution is simply to protect the page. That way it ceases to be live and no-one can claim any confusion. :-) FearÉIREANN 22:07, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi: Thanks for the notice in Wiktionary Beer parlour about Greek names of states. I agree that this is more suited to a Dictionary environment than an encyclopedic one. As it stands someone has already established articles here for most (maybe all?) countries, and others are happily putting in translations in random languages. It's just a matter of time before someone indexes the Greek names.

Our friend User:67.60.17.122 a.k.a. User:Pumpie appears to be obsessive about creating list while doing little or nothing to create content. We're also familiar with his efforts on Wiktionary where he is trying to list every imaginable given name. He's a young kid who doesn't seem to understand how much work he's generating for others. ☮ Eclecticology 01:30, 2003 Nov 5 (UTC)

My apologies for any lack of clarity. In this particular instance the matter is already adequately covered in Wiktionary, so nothing needs be done there. ☮ Eclecticology 05:31, 2003 Nov 6 (UTC)

By the way Angel, it is very likely I know the password for sysop on simple. Do you want me to check ? Do you think there might be a need ? I do not feel like arguing over there, already too much arguing on fr to my taste, but tell me. ant

sorry ? Doing what ?

You are cheating with the rules.

Unless I am wrong, at least 3 people want to see, at least temporarily undeleted. All three are old users. I am a sysop. I listed it on votes for deletions.

I am following the policy to the exact point. You are cheating, and not respecting the policy. So explain to me *exactly* where I am wrong and why you are right, and how is it you are quietly not respecting policies.

I think an answer and justification here would not be out of line. Or I will just know that the careful votes for undeletion I helped to set several months ago is just meaningless. Anthère

You also forgot the initial person requesting the undeletion. That makes 4. I understand you do not want the page to be undeleted, but Angel, you are a sysop, not to force (I would like a gentle word, but it escapes me) your feelings on others, but to be at their service, trusted to respect the rules. I do not care either for that page, but if others want it to stay 5 days at vfd, their opinion should be listened to. What is the big deal for that page ? It is not insulting anyone, it is not defacing wikipedia, it is not hurting anyone, so where is the problem really to let it live for a couple of days ? Why bother ? And if I undelete it, why should I just feel my opinion and my actions are irrelevant ?

You are all here making so many rules, that no one but those spending hours here appear to remember the core of them. Those just stopping by, and rooming around, they can't know all these rules; not even the sysops know all the rules, I am sure. I am more and more often tiptoeing around, wondering if I am not breaching yet another rule, doing something the wrong way. I hardly dare approach votes for deletion any more, it appears to be changing all the time. I am not even sure I still have the right, perhaps this afternoon a new rule appeared saying someone should do at least 5 major edits per week to be able to vote :-) The whole day, I have been thinking of reverting an edit I strongly disagree with, and I did not dare.

I wonder how welcoming it is to a newbie. I wonder how many sysops dare doing the housecleaning. Seriously. I am serious here. really Angel :-( (but of course I forgive you)

Angela, re Protest of Zofia Kossak-Szczucka. The Poles are working on a translation, with me helping to improve the English. (I am getting on quite well with them now despite issues of Polish nationalism etc.) I seem to recall that WP disapproves of articles being simply transcripts of historical documents. Would it be better to turn this article into an appendix of Zofia Kossak-Szczucka? Adam 02:52, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

You protected the article Daniel Chodowiecki for vandelism. This article has a grammatical error in its first sentence, which I mention in Wikipedia:Protected page, and propose 2 corrections for on the Talk:Daniel Chodowiecki page. You might want to take a look when you get the chance. Thanks! -- Pakaran 00:26, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I took care of it. -- Cyan 00:31, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Is it an out of process deletion? Yes. Does it really matter? No. Are people going to make a big fuss? Yes. Do I want to make a big fuss? ... not really. After bonking heads with Wik, I'm all fussed out. See also my comments at User talk:Louis Cockadoodle-do or whatever it is, too many syllables and I'm grumpy. -- Cyan 00:26, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Angela, I recently blocked a user whose IP was 142.177.xxx.xxx. This user, I have come to understand, is not our hardbanned friend EofT. I can't seem to stay logged in, so would you please unblock him for me? Also, the Tyranokatta guy is back ([2]. -- Cyan 04:05, 6 Nov 2003

Many thanks. -- Cyan 04:14, 6 Nov 2003

1. Thanks Angela, I was sure that there was something else I had to do, just couldn't think of what. - user:Zanimum
2. Thanks for fixing my link. Still trying to learn. Bmills 14:06, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Just realised I was using \ instead of/. Bmills 14:09, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Actually fixing my own typos in the Irish Poetry article was probably a bigger job than those links. That's why I was trying to create a space to work in privately. Now that you've done it for me, I'm a lot happier. Bmills 14:15, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Angela, how do you archive discussions? Over at Wikipedia talk:Make only links relevant to the context I noticed that it became >32kb, so I MOVED it to Wikipedia talk:Make only links relevant to the context/Archive 1 (and recopied some text back to the fresh page). But then the archive page starts showing up in the Watchlist and someone just replied to a message in the archive instead of the empty page :-( (I copied it back). Problem is, if you don't use Move, you don't move the Page History as well. How do you archive discussions O Wise One??? -- Viajero 20:02, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sorry about the overwrite there in the edit conflict on Bonkers (cartoon), just thought mine was slightly nicer. :-) Evercat 00:06, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Angela - thank you for the welcome and for the encouragement. It is nice to receive a welcome message from a real person - much better than an automated mailing. Having great fun already.

Gandalf61 22:11, Nov 7, 2003 (UTC)

Okay, you can try your SQL query now. -- Tim Starling 02:04, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Goes nowhere, well that I can easily find...

There is (was?) a list of land-grant colleges in the history of land-grant 209.86.18.166

That's why I get so mad at deletionists/axe-murders :)

Just like I can tell you that there are probably links to Cookie-cutter shark, and that it is actually a worthwhile article, just by how it was deleted. However, I have just come to the conclusion that axe-murderers may be even more devious than I had given them credit for. Unoppossed they would make for lousy editors. However in an environment that has many people who hate that mentality, it causes them to research and write articles - just to spite the axe-murderers.

I may have to retract that statement, google finds no listing - however, I bet that Cookie-cutter_shark is listed somewhere, I don't want to make a page to be able to find out what links to it in order to find out where it's linked from however....

This leads into other debates, things like the history excuse (saying, "it's all in history don't worry about it"). That's a shabby fig-leaf when even people like you get tripped up by it.

~ender 2003-11-07 20:46:MST

The most content Cookie-cutter shark ever contained was "Steve Rules over the cookie cutter shark!". Angela 04:16, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

I submit this quote for your consideration. -- Cyan 02:42, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Much ado about nuthin'. -- Cyan 02:42, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

P.S. I do lurk on the mailing list. -- Cyan 02:43, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Angela,

my apologies in advance for intruding into this natural habitat of yours. I noticed you've temporarily protected the page about the 2002 Gujarat Violence. Since you've done so, I assume you have a basic familiarity with the subject, therefore I'll take the liberty to elaborate.

I feel you have rewarded edit aggression by doing so, as I attempted to commence a discussion with User:Wik whereas he responded by ignoring my subsequent queries and resorting to aggressive editing. You can verify this in the page history of the Talk Page talk:2002 Gujarat Violence

I am aware User:Wik has contributed to other (unrelated) sections on his native Poland, and have no judgement to make on those contributions of his. However I do believe his knowledge about India is rather limited and he appears ill-informed to say the least. Some folks have labelled him a Marxist political propagandist, as he initially named the topic a "pogrom" which is an inflammatory title that reflects either his bias or ignorance. However I'm not particularly interested speculating about his political inclinations or the intention of his edits. My concern is solely with the content, quality and style of a given entry.

The current version you've protected clearly lacks depth, while leaving much to be desired of the style of presentation as well as the quality of the English. As you can verify by comparing both versions, User:Wik and his friends' wishy-washy effort is written in an amateurish and puerile "some say this, some say that" mould - hardly appropriate for an encyclopaedic entry. Moreover, he presents even verified facts as "points of view"(even when the events in question happen to be generally accepted by most observers and verified by organisations such as the BBC, to which I have provided a link on the talk page).

I would therefore request you to check out both versions and consider releasing the page as not doing so would be tantamount to rewarding Mr. Wik and his friends' aggressive editing.

Thanks and regards,

-conradx

Angela, thanks for your prompt reply. The current version as it stands perfectly suits Wik, as it is his version. He therefore has no incentive to have a discussion on it. Moreover, he was the one who broke off the discussion and resorted to aggressive editing, a fact you can verify from the talk page.

I'm open to the "mediation" idea, however I don't believe it can take place with Mr. Wik's version of the page in place.

Also, I can assure you there was no personal attack intended against anyone, as I stated I am only interested in the content and style of the entry, not the intentions of the person editing them.

-conradx

Hi Angela, I was out of town for a couple of days, so I'm just seeing your message, but I'm happy to help and I will do my best to mediate. I've got some catching up to do, so it may be not be until the evening (~8 hrs.) before I can get to this. Also, LibertarianAnarchist replied on my talk page in case you hadn't seen that.... Thanks, BCorr ¤ Брайен 14:34, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

NOTE: See bottom of this page for mediation proposal

Thank you for your input , it was helpful as i am a new user. BVC2000

There's quite a bit of material on the places available, so it can end up being a list of counties and towns pointing to their descriptions at the time and now rather than simply source data. I ended up doing school work about such things in high school, so it'll be useful for one target audience if it does get developed. (shrug) If not, there's seldom urgency about deleting things. We could do with a better system for saying that a page needs to be reviewed later, though, so we don't simply forget about them if they aren't dealt with immediately. JamesDay 07:13, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

A list of counties and towns pointing to descriptions of them 900 years ago is a list we don't currently have. I'm assuming that the newbie may have an interest in writing those articles. If those articles get created, it isn't going to be duplicated content. If they don't, it'll be a duplicated list and time for uncontroversial deletion, one I'll vote for. No idea yet how interested this newbie will be, but we have discouraged further participation, because a listing on VfD is a poor welcome. On the tools side, thinking about what we need to do things more efficiently is why I suggested taking a break from deleting for a while. What would help you to work more efficiently? Where do you need two clicks and waits when one could be provided? One for me is when tracking vandalism, where I look at user contributions and have to go to history and find the edit, then get a diff to see what was done, instead of clicking directly on a link to show me what was done and whether it's still there. JamesDay 08:11, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Argh. Yes, I was trying to salvage the more complete text and forgot about the copyright/history issue. I'll fix it. -- Someone else 09:32, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It occurred to me we should have a "Book of Abraham" before we have a "Book of Abraham controversies" anyway, so it's not a total loss<G>. -- Someone else 09:40, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think we're OK on the GFDL, since I wrote every word on that page that comes before "External link". <G> BTW, I tried the ext link and I get nothing, it may be broken but I won't delete it as it may be one of those temporary things that I can never understand... Someone else 09:53, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The good thing is, we don't have to worry about how things got the way they are if everyone's happy with the way they are<G>. -- Someone else 10:21, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on the Pow-wow split. This was the first time I'd taken an old article and split it into two new ones, and I felt better knowing someone was looking over my shoulder. Gentgeen 11:03, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting my user page and the Transportation in Syria article from that 210.50 guy with the Frank Brioni fixation! I presume blocking by IP number expires fairly shortly, as I blocked the IP he was using about 10 days ago but he isn't still on "blocked users". By the way, the localisation file on cy.wikipedia is nearly done, now I got my enthusiasm back, so the look of the place might change fairly shortly! -- Arwel 11:22, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

A list of Norman kings isn't quite the same thing as genealogy. Lists of kings, senators, presidents and such do belong here. JamesDay 12:46, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Indeed, this one does seem to have quite a bit to learn. We'll see what time reveals on the subject. I won't be surprised either way. JamesDay 13:05, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Yep, that's what I intended to happen; thanks! -- Khym Chanur 03:13, Nov 9, 2003 (UTC)

For the page headings. Daniel Quinlan 07:22, Nov 9, 2003 (UTC)

Unfortunately there are two famous football managers called Peter Taylor (and you have disambiguated both to Peter Taylor (coach). I will disambiguate further. Mintguy 18:18, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Heh-heh, yes it was a surprise to click on it and get a long list of cities! My first Main Page edit... Stan 01:51, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hola Angelita, I created a new help page: Wikipedia:How to archive a Talk page Perhaps you could look and see if anything catches your eye. Thanks. -- Viajero 16:44, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Updated Wikipedia talk:How to archive a Talk page; hope I understood your explanation. -- Viajero 18:19, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Angela. It seems that you have undeleted Land-grant university, and your comments in summary fields suggest that you do not understand why it is deleted.

The reason was written on talk:Land-grant university. Now, that page was deleted together when the article was deleted. The talk page remains deleted while the article is now undeleted. I would suggest you to read that deleted talk page.

I do not understand well the deletion policy in English Wikipedia - so maybe it should really be kept, or maybe not. Tomos 23:05, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The header pretty much says it all. If I misremember, maybe you know somene who is a sysop on meta? -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 23:18, Nov 10, 2003 (UTC)

Well, I did mean to blackout Kwena - I replaced it with Bakoena, and since it is only (currently) Qwaqwa that links to it, it doesn't cause too much damage. Bakoena is more linguisticaly correct than Kwena/Koena - the latter is an animal name, whilst the former is a proper noun meaning "those of the Kwena". ZyXoas 06:39, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

He ! the good news is that I will have more time for simple perhaps :-) ant

Hi, my conclusion when I looked at the History of Problem users was the same: that Niceguy is probably Nico. If that happens to be the case, Nico was alterted in a non-confrontational way that his actions were observed. In any case, my attempt to get the two to drop their mutual recriminations on that page has been a failure. -- Viajero 18:13, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hey, I was just wondering why the Google search engine doesn't show the results for newer articles. TopCamel 18:48, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Google takes a while to get new pages into their searches. RickK 16:32, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The page that the Hale image came from claims that the image is copyrighted. Do we really want to get into a legal battle over it? RickK 22:51, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I've contacted Ms. Greenberg, I will report on her response. RickK 23:17, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm well aware that I can't remove myself from Problem Users, and I fully expected my self-deletion to be reverted at once. I did it to show up the arbitrariness of EdPoor's decision to remove all criticism of Aplank. I was listed as a problem user for entirely frivolous and vexatious reasons, and that was why I counter-listed Aplank (although many other people find him a pest as well). If he is entitled to have all criticism deleted, then so should I be. (I actually think Problem Users ought to be abolished, since it serves no purpose other than to encourage this kind of childish argument.) Adam 01:34, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Following Angela's advice (excellent advice as always), I have removed Problem Users from my watchlist and will refrain from further such arguments, which demean everyone involved. I apologise for being, in a general sense, a problem user: I have a fairly short fuse in such matters, and I should stick to writing articles. I think also that I will have to withdraw from Mother Teresa (historiographically speaking), since that article seems beyond salvation by means of reasonble debate. Adam 04:29, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Nevermind. Daniel Quinlan 14:32, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC)

You wrote me a nice little welcome message and I didn't even say thanks, so here is my thanks. ^-^

Bye JessPKC

Hi Angela. The lovely picture labelled Trillium.jpg is not actually a Trillium. I deleted it from the Trillium page, but how do we delete it from the system and replace it with a valid picture? I don't have any copyright-free pics on hand right now, but could probably find one. -- WormRunner 17:54, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I have discovered that my article, Alternative Metal, was placed in the copyvio page. I request that a reason be stated. BTW thanks for answering my previous query Angela. -- TopCamel 20:45, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Illuminati Order, which you moved from vfd to vfd/copyvio, is being edited. Should it be reverted back to the copyvio notice? Maximus Rex 21:18, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I used the Internet, books, and my own prior knowledge to write Alternative Metal, but if one decides to compose, for example, a summary based on a web page, is this considered a copyvio? Again thanks for the reply, it is appreciated that you are helping a new Wikipedian. -- TopCamel 21:36, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

If you're going to remove personal attacks on Mathieugp from the Talk:Quebecois page, how about taking out Mathieugp's attacks on me and other contributors? As I recall, I've been called a moron and brainwashed. And while I have offered to work with Mathieugp on the article, even I can see that the personal attacks began with him. Trontonian 23:03, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt response, Angela. I'm glad to know you weren't providing preferential treatment to the French guy. I prefer to leave Mathieugp's comments in -- you might have to be a Canadian to understand why. Trontonian 23:21, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

What personal attacks? You are entitled to your point of view. Period. But don't impose your translation on my words and delete them to suit your particular view. NightCrawler 00:10, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)