Template:Korean requires |hangul= parameter.

An event mentioned in this article is a September 1 selected anniversary.

Apparently they were looking for an excuse. If they were just into protecting their airspace they would have called the pilot as soon as they knew he was off course.

Ah, but such was the climate of those times. --Uncle Ed 22:33 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

I was thinking of including a reference to Gary Moore's song "Murder in the Skies", but I was worried that it might seem trivial.... - Lee M 00:29, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Can someone rewrite the first sentence? It is hard to read. Kowloonese 00:13, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC).

No it isn't. Abc30 22:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a problem with details here. This flight originates very late at night at JFK. Arrives at Anchorage like 2-3AM the next day. Then after like 2 hours goes on. But... two hours into the flight after Anchorage, there is a day change zone, making it the next day again. Thus, plane located there on September 1 must have originated on August 30, not the 31. Unless, it started right after midnight. But still, would not add up.

The part about conspiracy theories asserts that the body count was inconsistent with other 747 crashes, however it fails to point out that KAL 007 burned in while the Air India and South African 747s both exploded mid-air! It should be immediately obvious that a mid-air explosion would result in scattered debris (and badly damaged corpses) while a flight crashing intact (as KAL 007) would result in a very different debris pattern as well as condition of the corpses.

The Izvestia series of 1991 featuring the interviews of the Russian civilian divers(from Murmansk and Svestapol) who visited the underwater site startimg 7 days after the shootdown, clearly show the amazement they fell into at the lack of bodies, body parts, amd luggage. For just a sample - Viyacheslav Popov: “I will confess that we felt great relief when we found out that there were no bodies at the bottom. Not only no bodies; there were also no suitcases or large bags. Sometimes the thought even occurred: Was it really a passenger plane, or is that a deception? Captain Mikhail Igorevich Girs: “From Captain Girs’ diary: ‘Submergence 10 October. Aircraft pieces, wing spars, pieces of aircraft skin, wiring, and clothing. But—no people. The impression is that all of this has been dragged here by a trawl rather than falling down from the sky…’” “So we were ready to encounter a virtual cemetery. But one submergence went by, then the second, and then the third... During the entire rather lengthy period of our work near Moneron, I and my people had maybe ten encounters with the remains of Boeing passengers. No more than that.” “I did not miss a single dive. I have quite a clear impression: The aircraft was filled with garbage, but there were really no people there. Why? Usually when an aircraft crashes, even a small one... As a rule there are suitcases and bags, or at least the handles of the suitcases.”

User:Stempy81 has added: "KAL was originally a CIA proprietary. USAF wanted to use a civilian plane as 'bait' to test the Soviet reaction to an incursion inside their borders. The flight took them over two Soviet military bases on the island of Sakhalin. 15 minutes behind KAL007 in international airspace was another civilian plane, KAL015, which relayed KAL007's messages to ground control. There are too many inconsistencies with normal procedure for this whole incident to have been accidental." Can you cite a source for this information, and at least mention the source as being the source? (e.g., "According to foo, a well-respected Pentagon official..." or maybe, "According to a fictionalized account of what might have happened, some people currently believe..." Lupinelawyer 23:16, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Replying to the question concerning flight times. During Daylight Savings Time (as would have been in August/September, Anchorage, Alaska (Airport: ANC), would have been -8 hours from GMT/UTC. New York would have been -4 hours. Referring to the The Port Authority of NY & NJ China Airlines currently (as of 7/24/2005) flies every other day non-stop from JFK to ANC (flight CI 011) on its way to Taipei, China (TPE). The flight to Anchorage takes 7hrs 20min--leaving JFK at 23:45 Eastern time and arriving at ANC at 03:05 local Anchorage time. Assuming your arrival time of 3:00 am Anchorage time, the plane would have been basically on the same flight schedule as the current China Airlines departing New York ~11:45 pm Eastern Time August 31. By the way, what is your source for the arrival time in Anchorage and the layover time? The best I have found is a narrative that the passengers boarded the plane late in the night toward midnight on August 31 (in Grady's book, p. 507). The shoot-down of the flight was by various sources ~18:30 GMT Sept. 1, some 5 1/2 hours after it took off from Anchorage. For reference, Sakhalin is 14 hours ahead of Anchrorage (Anchorage is -8hr GMT, Sakhalin is +10hr GMT). 13:00 GMT September 1 = 5:00 am (-8 hours) Alaska time = 11:00pm Sakhalin time September 1. If you add 5 1/2 hours to that you get 18:30 GMT Sep 1, but indeed Sakhalin local time is 4:30 am September 2.

Summary:

5:00am ANC 9/1 = 13:00 GMT 9/1 = 11:00pm Sakhalin 9/1 - Depart Anchorage

10:30am ANC 9/1 = 18:30 GMT 9/1 = 4:30am Sakhalin 9/2 - Approximate time of crash

Crossing the International Date Line in the Bering Sea between Alaska and Russia, going west, during Daylight Savings Time, you gain 20 hours (18 between Anchorage and Sakhalin).

Kona1611

Anchorage moved from the GMT-10 zone to GMT-9 zone in the 1983 Alaska time zone consolidation, which most likely means they went to DST (GMT-9) and didn't fall back in October. This would make Anchorage GMT-9 (not GMT-8) in August and September.06:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

There is, supposedly, and article by Washington Post by Alvin A. Snyder that discussed that the tape released by the US immediately following the incident was incomplete, and Snyder claimed that said Su-15 did radio and accomplished the internationally recognized symbol of force landing that all civilian pilots should know. http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/kal-007.htm I cannot locate the article in washingtonpost.com, but in a previous essay that I had written for school, the very same article came up on Lexis Nexis first, in which to speed things up (I was using a telnet interface to LN), I googled for the article. Indeed if someone reconfirmed the existance of this article, it doubts the clearly US point of view presented in this article

Said KAL was not shot with a missile. It was shot with the onboard gun/cannon, which indeed killed 2 passengers. They were forced down in Murmansk. Quotes were available in microfilm in NYT/WP articles relating to the KAL 007 tragedy.

In response to User:Cleared as filed, Two things, You can look in any U.S. newspaper during that time, I remember reading articles appearing the the New York Times and the Washington Post so if you check the archives. At the time I also called the Aeroflot office in New York and a recording answering saying that flights are now only operating from Canada. Also you cannot go by the information on the Aeroflot website because that information can be construde as bias, They are not going to list the fact that the United States Government kicked them out and as I recall there were several flights operated each week from Los Angeles, New York and Washington D.C. prior to their license being revoked, The fact that there was a war in Afghanistan had no effect on their U.S. operations because flights only operated to Moscow from these three U.S. Airports. User:Misterrick 06:21, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

I'm not talking about Aeroflot's website, I'm talking about the Aeroflot article here on Wikipedia. I don't know what its source was, and you still haven't posted a source, so what is the factual basis for it other than it's something that you remember from twenty years ago? —Cleared as filed. 05:30, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

In addition, here is a link from the Ronald Reagan archives that states that Aeroflot service to the U.S. was suspended in 1981 due to the Soviet Union's actions in Poland. I think without some evidence to back up your assertion (other than your memory), the statement should come out until it can be properly backed up. —Cleared as filed. 05:37, August 21, 2005 (UTC).

Um... Check what I said, I pointed out that there were articles in the New York Times and Washington Post about this, Unfortuantely my library doesn't have access to the archives of either of these newspapers but I'm sure there's someone out there that can find it. Misterick 07:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Well, I pointed out at least one source that contradicts it. I'd say that puts the burden of proof on you to come up with a source; saying that there were articles twenty years ago without giving us dates or pages isn't really citing a source. I'll take out the statements until we can verify them. —Cleared as filed. 06:33, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Charles, Here is your burden of proof, From the United States Embassy, Moscow, Russia website (http://moscow.usembassy.gov/links/history.php) go down to September 8, 1983 and you will see that it says "U.S. President introduces sanctions against the Soviet Union in connection with the incident involving a Korean civilian airliner, which violated Soviet airspace and was consequently shot down in the Sakhalin Region. As of September 15, Aeroflot branches in Washington and New York were closed and all American aviation commercial contacts with Aeroflot were banned." Therefore I am reinstating my previous edits since this comes directly from a U.S. Government source. Misterrick 09:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Looks good! I'll add those references to the pages. —Cleared as filed. 13:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Why is this flight KAL007, not KAL7 that would be the normal way of calling this flight? Usually after the three-letter ICAO code there are no zero prefixes. However, in the ATC conversation they used "Korean Air zero zero seven" which is confusing... KE007 is valid, in IATA codes you do see prefix zeros. 213.243.160.111 11:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Leading zeroes in flight number (ATC callsign) are very common outside the U.S.06:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

While the article can be improved, it's not in obvious dire need of cleanup. In any case, tags on articles should be used as a last resort when there are real difficulties sorting out an article - in most cases, the solution to the problem is to hit the "edit this page" button. Enchanter 22:19, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

The template on this page says 240 passengers and 29 crew died, while the main page tidbit in "On This Day..." says there were 246 passengers and 23 crew.--Methegreat 23:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There were 240 passengers (includes security), 6 dead headers (repostioning KAL employees), 20 cabin crew, and 3 flight crew. 269 total.See for the breakdown with names - [1] Bert Schlossberg

IIRC, Bruce Schneier in CRYPTOGRAM (http://schneier.com/crypto-gram.html) stated that the Russian general who gave the order to shoot down the plane was motivated by the fact that the last time something like this happened, the general on-duty did not give such an order and was executed. I cannot find the article however.

Fear of punishment of some sort might have indeed been in the background, but the immediate impetus for the shootdown order was the fact that KAL 007 was about to exit Soviet airspace, and that for the second time. The general in question was Anatoli Kornukov and here are two of his pertinent statements, taken from the transcripts of the Soviet military communications at the time of the shootdown:

1. "Kornukov: (6:14) Comrade General, Kornukov, good morning. I am reporting the situation. Target 60- 65 (KAL 007 "intruder") is over Terpenie Bay (Terpenie Bay is on the east coast of Sakhalin Island. KAL 007 had thus successfuly traversed Kamchatka, after entering over Petropavlovsk, and crossing the Sea of Okhotsk, it was about to enter Sakhalin's airspace.) tracking 240, 30 km from the State border, the fighter from Sokol is 6 km away. Locked on, orders were given to arm weapons. The target is not responding, to identify, he cannot identify it visually because it is still dark, but he is still locked on.

Kamenski: We must find out, maybe it is some civilian craft or God knows who.

Kornukov: What civilian? [It] has flown over Kamchatka! It [came] from the ocean without identification. I am giving the order to attack if it crosses the State border. "

2. "Kornukov: Carry out the task, destroy [it]!

Gerasimenko: …Comrade General… Gone to attack position.

Kornukov: (6:24) Oh, [obscenities], how long [does it take him] to go to attack position, he is already getting out into neutral waters. Engage afterburner immediately. Bring in the MiG 23 as well... While you are wasting time, it will fly right out."

For full context, see - [2]

SAFE LANDING IN THE PHILIPPINES? I have a distinct recollection of reading a newspaper article (most likely a wire service story) in a local paper (The Reading Eagle - Reading, PA) a day or two BEFORE the shootdown, the headline of which was something like "Missing Plane with US Congressman lands safely in the Philippines."

The gist of the article was that there was concern that a plane with the Congressman was missing (since the flight path was near Soviet space) and that there was now relief that the plane had landed safely in the Philippines. For that reason I found it particularly curious when the plane was shot down the next day. I remember wondering how, after the initial concern and safe landing, the plane had 'accidentally' wandered into Soviet air space.

There was also some mention of the Congressman's agenda having something to do with gathering information on restricted areas in Soviet territory and possibly playing a game of 'chicken' with a plane full of civilians.

Needless to say my memory does not comport with the current article which states that the plane was on it's initial flight from Alaska when shot down. Perhaps someone with access to US wire service archives from the time period could further research the existence of such a report.

VOICE COCKPIT RECORDING ALTERED? I recall reading an article in "Scientific American" sometime after the cockpit voice recorders were released that analyzed the tape and clearly showed transient blips indicating that the recording, as released by the US gov't, had been edited. The conclusions of this article would perhaps add to our understanding of this unfortunate incident.Nomdelapaix 13:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please include citations using the <ref> tags. see below, see the book, etc are not encyclopedic in nature. For example (ignoring the inconsistencies in quote usage), instead of saying:

President Reagan dismissed such theories as Soviet propaganda. However, independent researchers published books which, at the very least, seem to substantiate some of the details of the allegations. For instance, David Pearson notes in his book (KAL 007: The Cover-Up) that the flightpath of KAL 007 "passed over Soviet missile-testing areas, over the sites of several large phased-array radars, and near the Soviet submarine pens at Petropavlovsk" on the Kamchatka peninsula. Similarly the plane passed within a few dozen miles of Soviet air and navy bases on Sakhalin island, and if it had not been shot down as it left Sakhalin airspace, Pearson says, it was "on a heading that would have taken it eventually over the Soviet military center at Vladivostok."

It would be easier to read, in line with [policies], and more succinct to state:

President Reagan dismissed such theories as Soviet propaganda. However, independent research seems to substantiate some of the details of the allegations. For instance, the flightpath of KAL 007 "passed over Soviet missile-testing areas, over the sites of several large phased-array radars, and near the Soviet submarine pens at Petropavlovsk" on the Kamchatka peninsula. Similarly the plane passed within a few dozen miles of Soviet air and navy bases on Sakhalin island, and if it had not been shot down as it left Sakhalin airspace, it was "on a heading that would have taken it eventually over the Soviet military center at Vladivostok." and add <ref> </ref> tags here for David Pearson's book KAL 007: The Cover-Up

BQZip01, a few days ago you tagged most of this section for citations. As the person who added most of the information on the British documentary drama Coded Hostile, I'm at a loss as to exactly what you think needs verifying in this particular case. Nick Cooper 15:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All I am requesting is a simple reference to the claims stated. — BQZip01 — ^talk 21:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which "claims" specifically? Either identify precisely which part or parts of the paragraph you think need a citation/s, or I'm removing the tag. Nick Cooper 15:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added geocoded coordinates to the article. I used the coordinates where the attack occurred rather than where the plane crashed because I think the former is more significant, and because this location is known with more certainty. Various sources list different locations for the wreckage. I also changed the "crashed 55 km off of Moneron Island" info that has been in the article since the very beginning, because it is wrong from every source I've seen. The missile attack occurred about 55 km off the island, and every source lists locations closer to the island where it crashed (though they vary). --GregU 19:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Criticism of Conspiracy Theories" seems to be written as one person's rant against conpiracy theories. Any ideas on fixing it?Generalcp702 14:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also Hershs investigative reporting is in the conspiracy theory section but from what i understand the basis of his assertions has been proven correct. The CIA even cited his work in a history of the Korean Air event. https://www.cia.gov/csi/monograph/coldwar/source.htm#HEADING1-12 -dh