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Talk:War of 1812: Difference between revisions

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::The British had the Confederation as allies. I agree that it should just be allies. As for colonies, Upper and Lower Canada were dependent colonies. As for the names of the two nations, I'll never change my stance. I've never entered into a "what should we call it" discussion, and I never will. [[User:Tirronan|Tirronan]] ([[User talk:Tirronan|talk]]) 16:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
::The British had the Confederation as allies. I agree that it should just be allies. As for colonies, Upper and Lower Canada were dependent colonies. As for the names of the two nations, I'll never change my stance. I've never entered into a "what should we call it" discussion, and I never will. [[User:Tirronan|Tirronan]] ([[User talk:Tirronan|talk]]) 16:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
::The full name of the UK also distinguishes it from the [[United Kingdom of Great Britain]], which had existed until just a decade before the War of 1812. The UK that was fought in the then still recent American Revolution was the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and not the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. It also distinguishes it from the [[United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves]] and the [[United Kingdom of the Netherlands]], which both existed within a years time of the war, and the [[United Kingdom of Denmark and Norway]] and [[United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway]], both of which existed during the war. By contrast, with the possible exception of [[United States of the Ionian Islands|one British protectorate]], I cannot find anything else called the "United States" that existed anywhere near the time of the War of 1812. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] ([[User talk:OuroborosCobra|talk]]) 16:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
::The full name of the UK also distinguishes it from the [[United Kingdom of Great Britain]], which had existed until just a decade before the War of 1812. The UK that was fought in the then still recent American Revolution was the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and not the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. It also distinguishes it from the [[United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves]] and the [[United Kingdom of the Netherlands]], which both existed within a years time of the war, and the [[United Kingdom of Denmark and Norway]] and [[United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway]], both of which existed during the war. By contrast, with the possible exception of [[United States of the Ionian Islands|one British protectorate]], I cannot find anything else called the "United States" that existed anywhere near the time of the War of 1812. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] ([[User talk:OuroborosCobra|talk]]) 16:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
:::One of the very early discussion on Wikipedia it was that links rather than brackets can be used to clarify this: [[United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland|United Kingdom]]. -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 16:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
:::What does "dependent" mean and were there any colonies in the theatre that had a different status, eg the [[Newfoundland Colony]]? -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 16:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:51, 11 February 2021

    Former featured article candidateWar of 1812 is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
    Article milestones
    DateProcessResult
    March 1, 2004Featured article candidateNot promoted

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    Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2021

    Remove a sentence that doesn't make sense (Canada was not an independent country at the time of the War of 1812; the first Prime Minister of Canada wasn't elected until 1867; even under the current system described in the citation, Canadians do indirectly elect their Prime Ministers, by electing the PM's party into Parliament).

    Remove:

    No Canadian was elected Prime Minister as a result of the War of 1812 because Canadians don't have the right to vote for their Prime Minister.

    157.52.13.33 (talk) 05:50, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

     Done. Leventio (talk) 07:44, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2021

    Please remove the line describing '4000 slaves freed' as one of the 'United States casualties and losses' of this war. Freeing slaves is not a loss. This is racist language and deserves deeper discussion about how this impacted the war and post-war events. 2600:1702:4550:7130:8459:2D22:AF83:3D3 (talk) 20:31, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

     Not done. Not condoning slavery in any way, but in this historical context, it is a "loss" akin to losing a ship. Open to other opinions on this. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 02:07, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with @Ganbaruby: that this figure should remain in the casualties and losses section, though I think it might be better if it said 'escaped or freed' as per later in the article: "In addition, at least 3,000 American slaves escaped across the British lines. Many other slaves simply escaped in the chaos of war and achieved freedom on their own." Also, while looking into this, I noticed that the current source for the 4000 number is dead: I get a 404 error when I look for it. Other statements in the article such as "This war enabled thousands of slaves to escape to freedom, despite the difficulties." also need a citation, and the same citation might do for both, depending on the specifics. Joe (talk) 03:14, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Changed it to 'escaped or freed' and added dead link tags to the Weiss 2013 citations. Joe (talk) 04:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Burning of Washinton

    This section should be deleted. It duplicates information in the preceding secion on the Chesapeake campaign, and is entirely out of sequence in the timeline, being presented after the description of the subsequent battles of North Point and Baltimore. HLGallon (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    @HLGallon: What section are you referring to specifically? Joe (talk) 03:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2021

    I would appreciate it if you changed Indians to first nations. calling them Indians was something we did in the past like 30 years ago, now its just disrespectful and rude.

    I am not a first nations person myself, I'm Canadian, but they deserve better respect. 2001:56A:751B:CF00:1568:250:509:54AF (talk) 17:54, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

     Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. "Indian" in this context is far from universally frowned upon, and changing it in any direction could be controversial. Gaioa (T C L) 20:21, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    "Allies" in the lead

    The lead currently states "fought between the United States and its allies, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and its dependent colonies in North America and indigenous allies."

    Why does the USA have "allies" while the UK had "indigenous allies"? Apart from the style imbalance in the wording, there is a factual inaccuracy (according to the entry in the {{Infobox military conflict}}) as Spain was an ally but not an "indigenous" ally.

    Supplementary style questions:

    1. Did the UK have any none dependent colonies in North America at that time? If not why include the word "dependent"?
    2. Why a truncated "United States [of America]" but the full name of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland"? If one is truncated to a common name so should the other, or both should be given in full. Personally for stylistic reasons I would go with the truncated version of both and link the short names to the appropriate articles.

    -- PBS (talk) 19:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    As to the second point, the full name of the United States of America hasn't changed and might be expected to be known by the vast majority of readers. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland on the other hand, might be easily confused with its successor the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland by many readers if abbreviated to the "United Kingdom". That being said, for the very first sentence of the article that might be too much detail and abbreviation might be reasonable there with the full name given later, but on balance I'd weakly prefer leaving in the detail as-is. There is a substantive difference between the two abbreviations. --Noren (talk) 00:52, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The British had the Confederation as allies. I agree that it should just be allies. As for colonies, Upper and Lower Canada were dependent colonies. As for the names of the two nations, I'll never change my stance. I've never entered into a "what should we call it" discussion, and I never will. Tirronan (talk) 16:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The full name of the UK also distinguishes it from the United Kingdom of Great Britain, which had existed until just a decade before the War of 1812. The UK that was fought in the then still recent American Revolution was the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and not the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. It also distinguishes it from the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves and the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, which both existed within a years time of the war, and the United Kingdom of Denmark and Norway and United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway, both of which existed during the war. By contrast, with the possible exception of one British protectorate, I cannot find anything else called the "United States" that existed anywhere near the time of the War of 1812. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 16:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    One of the very early discussion on Wikipedia it was that links rather than brackets can be used to clarify this: United Kingdom. -- PBS (talk) 16:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    What does "dependent" mean and were there any colonies in the theatre that had a different status, eg the Newfoundland Colony? -- PBS (talk) 16:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Quelle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special%3ADiff%2F1006205932